Assuming you gave him the punishment he wanted least, you spanked him? Most kids today wouldn't want to give up their video games, TV privileges, cell phone, computer, etc. for anything. Why? They wouldn't know what to do with themselves.
So, in effect you lied to him. The way you framed the question implied he had a choice, and giving someone a choice is basically a contract. When push came to shove, you pulled the double-cross.
Can he ever trust you again?
Have you been reading me that no more spanking is at the root of all the evils? No, it's parents who want to be buddies with their kids and refuse to establish themselves as the alphas in the family. Spanking wouldn't be necessary as long as the kids feared crossing their parents.
It's parents who think their little angels can do no wrong and constantly interfere with the school's attempts to establish authority over the kids and to discipline misbehavior.
I'll accept your explanation of your presentation of options to your boy.
Schools do not have authority if it's not obeyed. When I got swatted with a paddle I did not conclude from that that all violence was okay for I was guilty and the punishment was just. My parents didn't run to the school to protest, the followed up at home with their own sanctions.
@Tiffany - RE: "You seem to have a comprehension problem"
Most people ultimately reach that conclusion --
In NO WAY did she lie to him! She asked a question - in no way, at least on THIS planet, did that imply anything! "What time is it?" "Why do you want to know?" Sheesh! Really?
RE: "Spanking wouldn't be necessary as long as the kids feared crossing their parents."
You know, as I've read and re-read the Bible, refuting as I go, if one thing jumps out at me, it's the recurring theme throughout both of the books - that we should fear god. And my ongoing question is always, why would any genuinely superior entity, if such there was, want us to fear him?
I know a young man whose father insists that he call him "Sir!" - that he end his sentences with "Yes sir" or "No sir" - he claims it shows respect.
Respect is earned, not commanded. The boy respects me far more than he does his dad - he only fears him. Why would any adult want to cause a child to fear?
@Tiffany - RE: "I'm sure your opinion is much more solidly based on actual facts."
If you knew Unseen, you'd know that that was a REAL stretch!
But seriously, reading the list of activities in which your children participate, it sounds as though you're really doing something right.
I think Kalil Gibran said it best:
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
I thing that before long, you're going to see a couple of really well-adjusted adults.
I dont think fear = respect. I come from a culture of parents beating the crap out of you. It gets to the point that you just don't care anymore of getting beaten up and you do what you want. The fear just vanishes, and after a while you get mentally prepared and it doesn't even hurt, next day you talk it with your friends and you all make fun of parents for thinking that will stop you.
That's absolutely right. It's one of the big problems with christianity - worship me or go to hell! Christians are taught to fear god - the god of love. I think it's sick to equate love with fear.
I strongly suspect that the beatings (I note you use the word "beatings" not swatting, spanking, or cuffing the ears) were just part of a constellation of reasons not to respect them. Am I wrong? Or were they otherwise stellar parents setting a good example for their children except for the beatings?
I thought as much.
What I mean by "beatings" is being hit with a belt (when you get older they wet the belt), a flying shoe (that's when you try to scape, no matter how fast you run it always reaches you, even if you do zig zags), bucket (better if its full of water, so then you have to clean the mess), fist (to the back of the head specially if you are in front of something that you can hit your forehead with) or a slap in the face. Boys usually get hit with skillets, or mothers break bottles or plates on their heads. Hoses, hangers, even big fruits are also useful when dealing with males. Fathers don't hit their daughters, the mother should always do it.
For us this is NOT child abuse, is not like the USA that kids call the cops on their parents for no reason. This is believed to be the proper way to raise your children, all parents practice this as is socially accepted. Kids like to talk about it and compete of who had the worst punishment. Physical punishment is always combined with some type of grounding (staying inside of your room for 2 weeks with no tv, phone, and music devices is a popular one). Parents will usually not talk to you for the whole time you are grounded unless is necessary. Usually they can't take it and "forgive" you after 4 days.
Parents who are not this strict are considered terrible, and usually a member of the family will suggest the use of this method or even do it themselves. So is normal that whenever you piss off a relative they also hit you.
Parents are also allowed to hit kids in public.
I don't know its something weird, because we lose fear and do what we want, but never consider our parents bad, or abusive, it is what it is. I have around 50 close relatives and all of us were rised this way and nobody turned out a psychopath and has ever been to jail. All of the opossite we all go to university and have decent jobs, the same with my friends none of them turned out to be Ted Bundy.
However, we turned out good because of the good values and integrity of our parents. Their good character. Their commitment to us and support. Not because they practiced what in some places is extreme punishment. That's why I tell you, that punishing people with physical violence doesn't help, they won't care because it won't hurt, so you are just wasting your time and they will laugh behind your back. Better teach them to be good by good example.
@Gabriella - you must have a very strong character, to have come from such an abusive atmosphere and still turned out so seemingly well-adjusted.
My mother was tough but not as much as the chinese Tiger Mom. Anyway my mother is my best friend and the only thing I would change was that she used corporal punishment and I wasn't that much of a bad kid.