Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by dave stallworth on September 8, 2012 at 7:54pm

Arch:

Here is my reply to the previous:

You commit many errors and set your own rules. So let me help you. Luke was also a historian. He investigated and recorded the testimony of eyewitnesses. He is acknowledged even by non-Christians as an accurate historian. He recorded it in the 1st century while eye witnesses were still alive. Strike One

Mark could have been there also- you make an invalid assumption just to support your thesis. Strike Two (but I will not count it just to appease you)

You kind of left out Peter who was there. He has several books in the NT. So there is your second witness. STRIKE THREE by your own definition

And by the way, you did not mention Paul who wrote much of the NT. Strike Four

Oh what about James, the brother of Jesus- would he count too?

Are you saying Jesus did not exist? It is not clear just what you were saying even if it is wrong. 

I will not bother with your straw man approach to Jesus- confine it, make invalid, unsupportable assumptions and then make a claim.  I am looking for a valid discussion, not straw man arguments.

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on September 8, 2012 at 8:36pm

RE: "Luke was also a historian. He investigated and recorded the testimony of eyewitnesses. He recorded it in the 1st century while eye witnesses were still alive."

You're saying he reported hearsay information. Have you any non-biblical sources of the time period with first hand testimony of this? Please respond --

RE: "He is acknowledged even by non-Christians as an accurate historian." - which non Christians, and what did they write that acknowledged him as such? I'd like to read it.

RE: "Mark could have been there also"

And so could Waldo - proof, please --

RE: "You kind of left out Peter who was there" - Peter didn't write one of the four Gospels, I was discussing the four Gospels. But now that you bring it up, I find it a bit odd that four anonymous people who never met Yeshua wrote gospels about him, while Peter did not - hmmm --

RE: "you did not mention Paul" - for two very good reasons, he didn't write a gospel, and he never met Yeshua.

RE: "what about James, the brother of Jesus" - which gospel did he write? What about Mary, Yeshua's Mom - why didn't she write a gospel?

RE: "Are you saying Jesus did not exist?" - I'm saying that none of the Gospels were written by anyone who ever met Yeshua - draw your own conclusions --

Permalink Reply by dave stallworth on September 8, 2012 at 8:41pm

Do oyu have any 1st century document sot the contrary? 

Paul did meet Jesus.

try reading the WHOLE NT and stop the straw man stuff. 

Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on September 8, 2012 at 8:55pm

LOL!  Paul met Jesus?  That's hilarious, because he never mentioned it.  Even when he claimed to have met the brother of Jesus he immediately followed it up with, "I swear to god it's true, I'm not lying!"  LOL!

Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on September 8, 2012 at 10:04pm

Do you even know what a straw man argument is, or did you just hear it somewhere?

I HAVE read the NT, many times.

RE: "Paul did meet Jesus." - oh, do you mean when he had the psychotic break while strolling to Damascus, and hallucinated?

Permalink Reply by dave stallworth on September 8, 2012 at 8:08pm

Because ther is more to God than you are portraying in your wrongful genocide. I would ask you the same question or perhaps more like: What is it about God that people come to believe? And it is not just a few but about 9 of 10 people. And please do not say Christians are stupid ot other af homimem comments as I would not say that about you. I an looking fro real reasons. Your portrayal of God from your genocide stance is not the God I worship. By the way, prior to attacking a city the Jews would offer the women and children safe passage out of the city. Those that stayed was by choice knowing the consequences. Also, you have not stated why God did what he did or even bothered to find out. So your moral judgment is not founded by just saying what he did. 

I am here to find out if you have any good reasons that are sound in fact, and really reflects real  Christianity . So far all I have seen is some vile language, incorrect ideas and straw man stuff. Maybe that is why there are so few of you. I also am interested in seeing if your peers are open to a dialogue and are willing to stand corrected when ti facts are there. Like heather just saying there is no evidence of Jesus outside the Bible- I gave her 6 references form Roman, Greek, Hebrew historians. If you have a fact or observation that challenges what I say then I am open to hear it. But straw man stuff is useless. 

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Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on September 8, 2012 at 8:19pm

@Dave Stallworth

I see you continue your pathological lies - You gave me Josephus AFTER I already debunked Josephus - you know for a fact that he never met Jesus because he was born about the time your Jesus was supposedly crucified.  Now you go on to suggest that you gave me 5 other historians when you did not.

You continue to suggest that Atheism is some fringe idea when in point of fact I rarely encounter Christians in my daily life.  Perhaps you live in some backward, illiterate community where god-delusion runs rampant, but most people in the developed world do not.

Anyway, the main reason so many people reject your anachronistic beliefs lays in the fact that the 'father' personality of your multiple-personality god was a tribal deity that demanded the slaughter and burning of animals so that he might enjoy the odour of their burning flesh.  That sure doesn't sound like a cosmos creating deity at all - but then in the Bronze Age minds of the shaman that created Yahweh, the distant galaxies were but mere twinkly lights hung in the earth sky for decoration.

Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on September 8, 2012 at 8:40pm

Heather - RE: "Josephus - you know for a fact that he never met Jesus because he was born about the time your Jesus was supposedly crucified."

Actually, about 4 or 5 years after.

Permalink Reply by Milos Cakovan on September 10, 2012 at 12:24pm

Since my arguments are weak, can you please use a similar format to mine and disprove them? Simply saying "your argument is weak" doesn't work here.

Also, if you wish a reason god doesn't exist, here is a quick one. And let's use your statement about him having a reason for the genocides, just to be quick about it.

If he is real, and all knowing, all powerful and all LOVING as so many of you claim he is, couldn't he possibly think of a better way to deal with things other than bloodshed and torture? That is not loving, or benign, or all knowing, or powerful. That is petty, and cruel. And if he is real and really all loving and forgiving and caring, he would never order any of his children killed. Would you kill your child if he was disobedient, like god supposedly did, and like the bible commands you to?

So either he doesn't exist, and the atrocities were committed by evil and greedy men, or are you willing to say he does exist and is in fact a worse monster than the devil. since according to your holy book, he lovingly ordered countless deaths, compared to Lucifer's 10 or so.

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Permalink Reply by kOrsan on September 7, 2012 at 2:16pm

I left as well my belief and was an atheist most of my adult life until I found that that life was void and had no hope.

Wrong. YOU are void and without hope. You merely thought that religion would give you that which you could not find by yourself. Weak.

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Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on September 7, 2012 at 5:08pm

@Paul McKinney

He came to earth as a human being?  Which of the millions of messiah claimants is the right one?

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on September 7, 2012 at 7:31pm

RE: "And you say there is no proof!"

That's exactly what I say - there's not only no proof of the existence of a god, any god, and certainly no proof that he came to this tiny planet, orbiting a common, ordinary star, in the backwoods of one of billions of galaxies.

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