I'm thinking about posting this to a few more religious forums, but I'd just like to hear what people have to say on here.

So, playing Devil's Advocate, and hopefully without a bunch of straw man replies, what is the best argument for God you've heard? And, if you really can't stand it, why is that argument not good enough?

My favorite is Descartes' Ontological argument- but since I don't have a clear and distinct perception of God, this one still isn't enough for me.

Excited to hear replies!

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Actually, go to the link, he has a lot more good stuff, but here, space is limited.

I believe that current theory holds that matter and anti-matter were NOT equal, and in the beginning, matter and anti-matter annihilated each other, the entire universe we have now, being the remnant, the left-over matter.

But such an annihilation HAD to have produced an incredible amount of energy, which can never be destroyed, so it has to be out there, somewhere. What exactly is the process that converts energy to matter? Surely it has a name. Could all of that energy ultimately become matter?

What if Dark Energy, expanding the Universe, gradually converted to matter, would that be enough to produce a Big Crunch?

That reminds me, I'm hungry --

The biggest problem with going back to The Big Crunch is that the universe isn't just expanding, it's expanding at an ever increasing rate. It's almost as if there is something outside the universe which we can't see but which is a very potent (increasingly potent attractor).

I also read somewhere that if there had been no antimatter, the universe would be a trillion times bigger than it is. 

Pretty good - except that towards the beginning, it appears that A. takes a rather enormous leap of faith:

"A: Quantum events can happen without cause. Perhaps our universe was a quantum event in a larger universe that always was."

Why should we believe that quantum events can happen without a cause? Simply because quantum physicists are currently unable to determine a cause? That sounds to me like an argument from ignorance.

When superstitious people are unable to determine the cause of a phenomenon, they just pull the Supernatural card and call it a day. But for quantum physicists? Abracadabra - the cause DOESN'T NEED TO EXIST!

How is this audacious claim any more reasonable or scientific than just labeling the event Supernatural? Wouldn't a more honest interpretation be that we simply don't KNOW of any cause?

You and your dad claim to have mathematical proof of the existence of god, and you call THAT a leap of faith?!

No one has refuted any of our axioms. The only assumptions used in the proof are the axioms. If you are insisting that the proof requires a leap of faith, then kindly point it out.

Sorry for my ignorance, but where can we find this proof? Is it in this thread somewhere or posted seperately elsewhere?

He posted the link on a previous page.  It takes you to a site where, guess what!  You can get a 50% reduction in the cost of the "course" if you buy before August 2013!  And I understand it's Bop's father who is selling the video course!  Isn't that just the most amazing co-incidence?

Why not stick with the truth and stop distorting the facts?  The 9 videos can all be streamed FREE at lower resolution.  Payment is ONLY if you want to DOWNLOAD a high-resolution copy.  And the 2 Technical Papers, which contain the entirety of the proof at high resolution, can be downloaded FREE if you merely submit a fee waiver.  It's all right there on the website, but you guys are so busy blowing smoke at us, that you are blinded by your own smoke!  -Mark (Bop's father)

Wow, SOMEbody's father is getting testy! That usually happens just before theists flounce off in indignation.

But...but...but... he had such a nice smile in the picture on the site.  He didn't look cranky at all.  I'm gutted, now.

Jet lag --


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