I'm thinking about posting this to a few more religious forums, but I'd just like to hear what people have to say on here.

So, playing Devil's Advocate, and hopefully without a bunch of straw man replies, what is the best argument for God you've heard? And, if you really can't stand it, why is that argument not good enough?

My favorite is Descartes' Ontological argument- but since I don't have a clear and distinct perception of God, this one still isn't enough for me.

Excited to hear replies!

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As far as i am concerned religion has only had one internally consistent and some what convincing argument for belief in god. Fortunately it has fallen out of favor in most civilized countries. The general form of it runs somewhat like this " You better believe in god and if you give us any indication you don't believe in god we are going to form an angry mob and stone you to death" Funnily enough ,as that argument has fallen out of favor so has atheism started to rise in popularity.

Interesting, but I don't know that I agree. You can definitely have an anti-realistic belief in a God, but I think the problem becomes assuming God has so many definitions, or maybe just not providing a solid one in the first place. I usually disregard whatever dogma and just go with the standard omnibus philosophical God.

And Kant is good too.

Hmmm...  In my own definition of a "perfect" God, one crucial trait would be that all of his "subjects" believe in his existence.

I also disagree with that. My idea of a wrathful, pissy God would be that all of His "subjects" believe in and worship Him. A perfect philosophical God would not have subjects, or be remotely concerned with being worshiped.

I don't necessarily mean that he would be worshipped (I agree that a truly perfect being in all of his omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, and omnibenevolence would neither want nor require worship), but at the very least, I would expect his existence to be a known fact to all (he wouldn't have to force that or require that; it would just...be).  What they think of such a god is another matter.  He'd at least have to be universally acknolwedged.

Oddly enough, the more I try to consider a perfect being, the more I realize that a perfect being probably wouldn't bother creating lesser beings in the first place.

Though, I'm actually a bit more comfortable in the idea of an impefect god than a perfect one, anyway.  If I were forced to become a believer in some religion of my choosing, I'd likely subscribe to Greek or Roman mythology...lol

Multiverse theories propose that for every reality as we know it, there is a counter that also exists for every possible diversion. 

So in one dimension, if I come to a fork in the road and turn left, another 'me' in another existence will turn right. 

In theory, not only am I Batman in another universe....

But all gods must exist, as well. 


I just see no evidence of it here. 

Even if the multiverse theory is true and there are infinite multiverses it does not neccesary mean everything must happen somewhere. An example is if you start at 0 and count upwards in 2's you will have an infinite  series  that still wont contain a single odd number

Right, but because you are counting upwards of 2, in a galaxy far, far away, there ISN'T a number 2. At all. In existence. 

If you have infinite multiverses, you have infinite reality.  Just the idea that such a deity could exist would in fact give birth to one, right? 

As far as i understand  that does not have to mean any of those infinite multiverses have to contain a god.

Infinity is a strange concept and it turns out you can have infinities of different lengths that are still the same size. For arguments sake  lets say there is a one in a billion chance that any one of those multiverses would contain something we could call a god.Now if you then make a set of only those multiverses that contain a god you would find that set is also infinitely long even though it is one billionth the size of the original set. So even if we have an infinite number of multiverses ,it is possible that every single one of them will  contain a god even though  the chance of anyone of them containing a god is infentesimal .


You wanted my best argument for possibility. 

That's my best one. 

I never said it was good. That's why I'm not a theist! 


Just the idea that such a deity could exist would in fact give birth to one, right?

Actually, it's not the idea that gives birth to it... It already exists, you're just thinking about it. Except in the case of things which ideas give birth to.... in that case, we are currently meta-thinking about the idea giving birth to something.

Just a thought--assuming that, and so assuming that a philosophically perfect God exists somewhere, isn't it a little weird that He (being omnipotent) has never reached out across universes to interject in ours? Since He hasn't, isn't that proof that He doesn't exist in any universe?


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