Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Matt Coulthurst on November 23, 2010 at 3:59pm

One must also contextually assume that the use of the word re-arrest also includes conviction and imprisonment. I don't like assuming anything, especially when statistics are involved. Especially when you see the same article talking about arrest charges in a contextual manner that does not imply conviction or imprisonment.

I just found that the article from wiki actually left me with more questions than answers. What's the saying? "There's lies, damn lies, and statistics"

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Permalink Reply by Reggie on November 23, 2010 at 4:57pm

Haha. True, true. I'm taking it all in on a contigency basis, anyway. Grains of salt all around.

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Permalink Reply by Kris Feenstra on November 23, 2010 at 4:27pm

How rare are psychopaths, anyway?

I don't know. If I'm not mistaken, the term psychopath was dropped for a period of time. I think it was replaced by antisocial personality disorder. The incidence of antisocial personality disorder is something like 3% in males and 1% in females.

The problem is, there are different types or subgroups of antisocial personality disorder, and I don't think they all fit the concept of psychopathy we are talking about here. In this case, I don't quite know how to meaningfully deal with what feels like ambiguity. Perhaps I just need to read up and get informed.

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Permalink Reply by Reggie on November 23, 2010 at 5:00pm

I guess clear definitions aren't always easy. My layman's understanding is that psychopaths are rare. More common are sociopaths.

I think I need to read up more and get informed, too.

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Permalink Reply by Reggie on November 23, 2010 at 3:38pm

Maybe recidivism will be higher for the pedophiles.

Very possible. I'm almost afraid to research it online.

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Permalink Reply by Atheist Exile on November 23, 2010 at 7:26pm

Unfortunately, there is a whole class of people we could describe as society's "underbelly". They don't understand rehabilitation. They don't want rehabilitation. They want to kill their (perceived) enemies or they want easy money or they want sex with frightened strangers or whatever.

The human condition encompasses the full gamut of people. Some of them are simply sick fucking people; without any hope of rehabilitation. That's the truth I've found in my experience thus far.

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Permalink Reply by Kris Feenstra on November 24, 2010 at 3:53pm

The question is about punishment though. If some people are 'sick fucking people' with no hope of rehabilitation, would it not be a waste of energy to actively punish them?

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Permalink Reply by Malcolm on November 23, 2010 at 9:20pm

But punishment is so festive!

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Permalink Reply by Kris Feenstra on November 24, 2010 at 3:55pm

I don't follow your reasoning.

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Permalink Reply by Dogly on March 19, 2011 at 1:54pm

I am very judgemental. I try not to be.  My simple reference is the golden rule, clarified to include everyone with a nervous system and the ability to feel sadness or pain.  The eastern religions first teaching of "Ahimsa", which means :"Do no harm" works well.  Anyone who chooses to cause the suffering of others for his own benefit, is acting badly, in my view.

I feel rage at those who abuse, starve, rape, or kill someone (including other animals) over whom they have power.  I feel vengeful.  I imagine poetic justice.  I want to carry it out.  I might "turn the other cheek" for injustices against me, and I may be forgiving.  When the injustice is against some powerless "other", I want retribution.  I admit this generally unacceptable point of view.  Still, I do do wish to give the power of severe punishment to my government.  I do not trust them.

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Permalink Reply by JerBear on March 22, 2011 at 8:19pm

Is there still a place for punitive justice in modern society? 

What a great question to think about and pose. Thanks for posting this. I'm curious, is there anything in particular that you have been reading or hearing about that brought this topic to your mind?

 

Punitive Justice almost sounds like it could be an oxymoron to me. Punishment might have nothing to do with justice. Equating the two may just be a rationalization to help make the one administering the punishment feel they are doing the "right" thing.

 

Alfie Kohn has done years of research and writing on the subject of punishments and rewards. In fact, he has a fascinating book called "Punished by Rewards" that I highly recommend checking out. He often talks about the subject in the context of education, but it is applicable to other realms where punishments or rewards are used (government policy, law enforcement, interpersonal relationships, etc.)

Punishment and reward proceed from basically the same psychological model, one that conceives of motivation as nothing more than the manipulation of behavior. ~Alfie Kohn

We have a whole society that is very entrenched in the idea of using punishments and rewards to manipulate people into behaving the way we think they should. While these techniques sometimes work in the short term, they are almost always nothing but a short term fix and are generally counter-productive in the long run because they never address the most important issue: what are the motivations behind a person's behaviors.

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