I say it is meaningless or "it would be better for a man not to be born than to be brought into the world", but Im just curious and somewhat sick of debates at the moment so you can criticize my view I just may not answer and Id like to hear yours

Also another question I have for Atheists is why should I (or anyone else) be moral if there is no God? I wont accept it if it is subjective because subjective morals makes Nazism moral.

Tags: Why, are, bother, monkeys, moral

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IT was just a comparison its just one more naturalistic process. My original question still goes unanswered by the way. Prove that someone should be moral without absolute morals
It's better to think that it's wrong to lie in most cases, unless lying will help in the long run, save someone pain, even save a life.

Hence lying isn't always wrong. Usually it's wrong but not always. It's not absolute.

Killing is wrong, but not always. In self defense, or in war, or if it happens by accident in a car accident or if you're the surgeon who messes up and kills a person during surgery, then it's okay. You won't get the same punishment as someone who plans a premeditated murder. That's morals not being absolute. That's better than any ridiculous absolute moral code with no wiggle room.

Did you watch the Richard Dawkins absolute morality video someone posted here?
Prove that someone should be moral without absolute morals

No one should be moral without gods, but people can be moral without gods. By moral, I mean what the common sense regards as morality.
I DEMAND THAT YOU PROVE THAT YOU DON'T HAVE AN INVISIBLE GREMLIN THAT YOU CAN'T FEEL STANDING ON YOUR HEAD!!
I can't say you're "wrong" in that sense. I CAN say you are a menace to society and someone needs to put you on meds or in a cell, that is if you were going to do that stuff.
Morality IS subjective. There's nothing black and white in even morality. It all depends on the situation at hand, and sometimes difficult choices arise. However, like others have said, actions and behaviors resembling morality has been seen in even the animal kingdom. It all has to do with rules that preserve the balance of the group. Atheists don't do evil and bad things because most atheists fear upsetting the balance. What is a better way to live? To do good things because your own internal compass tells you so and that bad things shouldn't be done? Or to do good things because a book tells you that bad things send you to a terrible place? Is the only thing making you do good things is to score points for entrance into paradise? Is the only thing keeping you from bad things like murder is because of your religion? If there was no reward or punishment system of an afterlife, no Bible to run your life, would religious people go around doing what they want, killing whomever they want? I don't think this is so, and even in the animal kingdom, animals exercise restraint and have their own force continuums.

I'm sick and tired of this "relationship with God" nonsense. You can't have a relationship with an invisible entity! If anything, God is less like a "loving husband" and more like an "absentee parent". If anything, the Bible describes God's relationship with us as abusive, keeping us locked in guilt and fear over being inferior and thus unable to break away from. This is the classic definition of an abuser and a tyrant. I don't hear words of God telling me how much he loves me. I don't see arms wrapped around me whenever I have a bad day. Life is rough. And this will answer your "meaning of life" question. The meaning of life for an atheist comes from when he or she lives it. We give it meaning by what we fill our lives with.
/I'm sick and tired of this "relationship with God" nonsense. You can't have a relationship with an invisible entity! If anything, God is less like a "loving husband" and more like an "absentee parent". If anything, the Bible describes God's relationship with us as abusive, keeping us locked in guilt and fear over being inferior and thus unable to break away from. This is the classic definition of an abuser and a tyrant. I don't hear words of God telling me how much he loves me. I don't see arms wrapped around me whenever I have a bad day. Life is rough. And this will answer your "meaning of life" question. The meaning of life for an atheist comes from when he or she lives it. We give it meaning by what we fill our lives with./


Then you completely miss the point of the Cross if you think following God is all about guilt and fear.
then you dont understand Grace.



I think this is an interesting verse usually read at weddings but its how Christians are supposed to want to act towards everyone

1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
But love isn't only a feature of Christianity. We all love. To tell me I have to have a relationship with God to experience love is an outright lie... and maybe one you've fallen for.
Your post where you said "why deny yourself" shows me that you think of yourself first. You have to know God to experience genuine selfless love

"it is not self-seeking"
Oh... and our love for our children is not selfless, either. They are apart of ourselves and we have a vested interest in their lives. They count as part of our success. It's all about MUTUAL BENEFIT... we give because we receive; we receive because we give.
I don't believe in selfless love, David. I believe in give and take and mutual benefit. Of course I'm not going to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't give back! Why would I? Why would YOU? I don't, not for one second, believe you are capable of selfless love. You expect me to believe you would be with a faithless wife? You expect me to believe you're okay paying the bills, cleaning the house, taking care of the kids, etc while she soaked it up and did nothing in return? You're either lying to me or you're lying to yourself.

And anyway, God does not express selfless love because he, also, demands we give back... he demands our very lives. Show me one instance of selfless love on his part, or on your part. His death is not an acceptable answer because it's a trade: his life for ours.
You need no invisible bearded guy in the sky to know selfless love... you only need a child. I have none myself but the general consensus is that your child comes before your own life.

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