I say it is meaningless or "it would be better for a man not to be born than to be brought into the world", but Im just curious and somewhat sick of debates at the moment so you can criticize my view I just may not answer and Id like to hear yours

Also another question I have for Atheists is why should I (or anyone else) be moral if there is no God? I wont accept it if it is subjective because subjective morals makes Nazism moral.

Tags: Why, are, bother, monkeys, moral

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Not exactly doone I dont really care what the Beasts number is and most people who do arent Christians. Most of the people who wrote the Bible were actually educated Paul was especially educated and considered one of the foremost scholars in Israel
You're saying that the only thing wrong with pedophilia, at least by God's standards, is that the rapist and the child are not married?! WTF is wrong with you, David?

I hope that's a rhetorical question. Do you really have to ask that? ^.~
The number of prophecies which came true in the bible compared with those that didn't hardly vary from the laws of probability. And each one of them that did come true can be explained as pure coincidence. Explaining them as supernatural goes against Occam's Razor.

Bible Thumpers of the school Doom and Gloom Conspiracy Theories fail to realize that The Bible inspired the Nostrodamus way of prophesying. Write something obscure enough, and you can predict anything if somebody obtuse enough can "decode" the message. I'm pretty sure there are still people out there who think there's a hidden code written deep within the Bible, even in the English version.
Write something obscure enough, and you can predict anything if somebody obtuse enough can "decode" the message.

Exactly. I remember this exact point being argued in a thread (Can bible claims be proven true, or proven false?) about a month ago. The question posed was this:

The problem for gods and prophets is that they can’t resist making specific claims. Those are testable and verifiable. What claims in the bible came true, and which ones didn't?


Nelson summed up the status of Biblical claims of prophecy perfectly here:

they're either too vague so as to be seen as having been confirmed in any number of events, too obvious so as to have us be surprised if someone had not predicted the event, or the prophecy is nothing of the sort, having been written so as to give the impression of having been written before the event prophesied but in fact was written after the event occurred.

To which I added the following examples to illustrate the point:

-On Saturday I said to my boyfriend, "It might rain sometime early next week."
-On Saturday I said to my boyfriend, "If that hurricane hits us on Monday, it will rain."
-On Saturday I said to my boyfriend, "I bet that the weather will be crappy next week." When it rains on Monday, I then say, "See? I said that it would be rain."

The third scenario is especially common in the Bible: ambiguous statements are made, events unfold, and then the two are tailored together to form a unified event. Keep in mind that the Bible is the work of generations of scribes copying and revising the text; previous claims can be literally rewritten to correspond with later events.


Shockingly, neither of us received a response from the OP.
And spotteth twice they the camels before the third hour. And so the Midianites went forth to Ram Gilead in Kadesh Bilgemath by Shor Ethra Regalion, to the house of Gash-Bil-Betheul-Bazda, he who brought the butter dish to Balshazar and the tent peg to the house of Rashomon, and there slew they the goats, yea, and placed they the bits in little pots. Here endeth the lesson.
That's some fancy trollin', David.
Bibllically only adults (People who have hit puberty can be married) Marriage is defined as a commitment between a Man and a Woman. Not a Child. A Child is a boy or a girl not a man or woman (depending on Gender. So they cannot get married so implicitly pedophilia is not allowed.

David, children normally hit puberty anywhere between the ages of ten and sixteen; sometimes, girls as young as seven or eight can reach menarche. Are you suggesting that it is appropriate for a ten-year-old girl to be wedded and bedded so long as she has had her first period? Do you really think that adults having sex with twelve-year-old children is okay as long as the child has begun puberty?

This requirement of puberty for marriage does not make fornication equivalent to pedophilia. You still have not established your basis for concluding that pedophilia is immoral.
//David, children normally hit puberty anywhere between the ages of ten and sixteen; sometimes, girls as young as seven or eight can reach menarche. Are you suggesting that it is appropriate for a ten-year-old girl to be wedded and bedded so long as she has had her first period? Do you really think that adults having sex with twelve-year-old children is okay as long as the child has begun puberty?

This requirement of puberty for marriage does not make fornication equivalent to pedophilia. You still have not established your basis for concluding that pedophilia is immoral.//

It would be clsoer to 15 but at a minimum of 13 anything younger than that and it is rape. Pedophilia is a form of rape. Rape is against biblical teaching so therefore pedophilia is wrong according to the Bible. There ya go
It would be clsoer to 15 but at a minimum of 13 anything younger than that and it is rape. Pedophilia is a form of rape. Rape is against biblical teaching so therefore pedophilia is wrong according to the Bible. There ya go

Pedophilia is not just a form of rape; you cannot just bend definitions to suit your purpose. Rape is forced sexual intercourse, whether vaginal or anal. Pedophilia refers specifically to an adult's sexual attraction to children and possible instigation of sexual activity with a child; it does not necessarily involve penetration. The Biblical prohibition against rape does not cover molestation or the fondling of a child, but I'm sure that you still find these acts to be equally immoral.

My point in this is not to argue the revolting details of child abuse; I'm only trying to clearly establish that the Bible does not condemn pedophilia. Your moral condemnation of pedophilia is therefore not a result of Biblical morality; you have established this moral conclusion independent of the Bible.

Why are you so opposed to the idea that your morals might be the result of something other than the Bible? Why is the thought of establishing your morals based upon reason, logic, and consensus with others such an offensive suggestion?
Now he's cornered. He can't use a hard number if puberty is the standard. He said anything below 13 is rape, by this does not mesh with his bible based rule of "If there's grass on the field, play ball." Many girls have periords way under the age of 13.

I think that most of modern society would not agree with having a little 11 year old girl get married off to the 70 year old village elder so that he may do what he pleases with her. The bible only ever address the issue of marriage, so as long as it's within the confines of marriage then anything goes. How do you justify this?
HA! I also nearly responded yesterday with "So if there's grass on the field, play ball? If she's old enough to bleed, she's old enough to breed?"

I'd like to add, any Christian who thinks child molestation is only wrong because "rape is against biblical teaching" has clearly never read the bible. A quick search on the topic will turn up numerous passages commanding the capture of young virgins and plundering of that booty. Even raping an unbetrothed virgin is fine as long as you pay her father like 10 bucks and marry her afterward.

An absolute age of consent is difficult to establish, but any person of logic and reason knows a 10 or 12 year old girl (prepubescent or pubescent) isn't ready for marriage. Even murderers in modern society look down upon child molesters. Why are there no biblical laws forbidding this horrific crime? Only because the goat herders of yesteryear loved them some young virgins and considered females nothing more than property, sex slaves, and baby making machines. This is why so many societies of blind faith instead of logic still allow child brides in the 21st century.

To repeat what Shine so eloquently stated earlier, "If you can establish how you arrive at the conclusion that paedophilia is wrong, then you will see how it is that atheists are moral."
Don't forget this masterpiece from Deuteronomy

22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.


Rapist finds virgin. Village forces rapist to buy victim from father. I'm not sure what fifty shekels is in today's terms, but I imagine it's a sizable sum.

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