"What is REAL ?" asked the rabbit one day..." ('The Velveteen Rabbit' by Marjorie Williams - 1922)
http://www.velveteenprinciples.com/velv ... /index.htm

I do not ask this question mischievously. It is a serious question - asked after I was abruptly woken up this morning from a very vivid dream.

There are some here who would say the picture images and accompanying thoughts & emotions, within that dream, were an illusion of reality - an hallucination, a delusion etc etc.

Maybe so to them - but it was 'real' to me.

So, with previous discussions on Dawkins 'delusions', Bering's 'illusions', Hypnotism (altered states of consciousness), Two Orders of Reality, etc, etc, I ask the question :


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Okay, and you.
@doone, you said it much more concisely than I did. Well done.
Thanks Allen (& Doone) - that's really helpful. I appreciate your time in explaining something complex (to me) in simple terms.

Dreams are one way the unconscious mind has of communicating with the conscious mind. I look at it as the brain trying to decipher previously received information (images, emotional displays, words, et cetera). And then sending that information to consciousness (which a dream is a form of). Intuition is also a way the unconscious mind communicates with consciousness. But one should bear in mind that during human evolution, the unconscious mind wasn't required to distinguish between fact and fantasy. Therefore, fantasy has just as much impact on the unconscious mind as does reality. And therefore, intuition and dreams can sometimes be misleading.


Also, some philosophers in the past have made pretty good guesses about how something in reality works. But only empirical evidence (scientific research) can tell us who made a good guess and who was wrong. So the next philosopher who insinuates that reality is only an illusion, ask the philosopher if he minds if you put an "illusory" 44 magnum against the side of his head and pull the trigger. I'll bet the act would wake the philosopher up to reality.

"Consciousness (which a dream is a form of)"

Dreams as a form of consciousness ? Interesting idea Scapegoat.

Maybe dreaming is an altered state of consciousness - like an hypnotic trance ?

Well Adriana, if you believe dreaming is a "state of consciouness", what's your problem with an hypnotics state being a "state of consciousness" ?

"Chill pill" taken Adriana - thanks.


The connection between hypnotism & morality was whether or not people under hypnosis could do things against their 'moral code'.


May I bid you goodnight - it's probably mid to late Sunday afternoon where you are, but it's nearly midnight here - and I really must go play with the fairies.


And you're right Adriana - I am here primarily to learn - and I am learning much....thank you...but I also like a good argument as well ! 


Night ! Night !

So doone, you appear to see your existence as a reality - as I do mine.


We are not an illusion - therefore, it logically follows, neither is our mind.


All I am saying is that we are a subjective reality 'in here', within the objective reality of the universe 'out there'.


And there seems to be an 'interface' between these two orders of reality. 

"One reality" ?


That just sounds like a secular form of philosophical Pantheism to me.

"Common-sense suggests at least "two orders of reality" (CEM Joad), so for Richard Dawkins to posit only one 'Science-based' reality, to explain what is real, suggests not least a lack of balance on his part" - Richard W. Symonds
(On seeing "What's real?" by Richard Dawkins - Front Page, Eureka Magazine, The Times, September 2011)


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