Scenario:  You're in a commited relationship and your partner says that s/he still loves you and still wants to be with you, but can no longer repress the desire to undergo a sex change operation.  Is it morally permissible for you to decide to leave the relationship if s/he proceeds with the sex change?


I don't believe it's morally permissible.

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I do not think I could handle a strap on...

Lol, you just made my day!
Do we wear different color briefs to make laundry a tad easier?

See, now that's problem-solving in action! :)
Surely we are trying to live other peoples lives. I am sure it would be a tough decision, but you are who you are and wanting a sex change does not mean you want to be awkward,. You must be true to yourself and if you feel you are the wrong sex, and an operation is available, go ahead.

It must in the end be a hard choice so I am sure you would not want to go through this operation without good reasons.
I think it's absolutely morally permissible to leave. You entered the relationship assuming they were one gender only to have them change during the relationship. If you identify with being a sexuality they at first comply with, and then they change it and it doesn't match your sexual preference, why should you be stuck there with genitalia you're not interested in? It is a natural reaction for a human being, dismissing the 'pity' or 'feel bad for them because you still have love 'for' them' factors, to leave a situation that makes them unhappy such as relationships. Although psychologically speaking, some individuals stay in those situations, it is usually because they can't recognize they're unhappy in the first place (i.e.: abused wives who stay with their husbands for years). In relationships themselves, if a person can recognize they're unhappy, as in any situation, they should have no moral obligation to stay. They can easily stay friends with the person. If they 'stay in the relationship' and don't see anyone else, and don't have sex with the person, then they're pretty much just in a friendship anyway. If they stay with the person and have sex with them out of moral obligation, they're defying their sexual preference (in a lot of cases) and perpetuating their unhappiness and staying in a relationship under false pretenses, deceiving both themselves and the partner.

If they decide to split, on the contrary, and simply leave it at friendship, no harm no foul. I've seen this happen in a lot of cases. Unless the partner expects sex of them still, there's no reason they can't just be friends, and the partner, if they really love the person, can't expect them to have sex with a gender they're not interested in regardless of their love for them. My fiance is wonderful, but the difference between him being my fiance and him being my friend is that I have sex with him (exclusively, in our case) and have a child I raise with him. If he suddenly wanted to be a woman, I may stay with him simply because I'm interested in both genders, but if I was not interested in both genders I would easily say 'Hey, let's just be friends then. I don't really want to have sex with a woman. We can still live together and raise Lexi but let's date other people who fit our sexual interest. I'll still be here to support you.'

Again, no reason it should be 'morally impermissible' to leave them.
Yep, yep!
Hmmm another atheistic discussion about .... morality :D

Well, I'm in umm 2 minds about this one! I mean, ppl who want a sex change do genuinely seem to want to be the 'opposite' sex but then again, can't they 'act' the 'opposite' sex eg 'transvestite' etc without surgery??? Is 'sex change' in fact very conservative thinking, wanting to conform ... sorta fundamentalism????

I can't think that my DH would want the op ... he seems far too fond of all his 'bits' On the other hand, we all change over the years - we have been together about 12 years now and we are sorta 'same but different' ... albeit not THAT different ...

Divorce is always an option for both of us ... if we started to have fundamental differences then either our marriage would have to adjust or we'd have to part.

Neal ... my Dear Husband doesn't like sports ... it's never been a problem for me ... if he changed sex and suddenly liked sports ... Oh MY SATAN!"!!!!!!
The problem is that you're comparing apples to oranges. If my fiance suddenly went from not liking sports to liking it, it wouldn't bug me. In fact, he's done it. However, if he suddenly wanted female parts, that *would* bother me. Sex is a very intimate thing. It's giving yourself and making yourself vulnerable to somebody, and people are attracted to what they're attracted to. Suddenly changing that would be like, say. . . my fiance tattooing every inch of his skin dark brown and getting facial reconstruction to have Afro-American features. I have a lot of black friends, but I'm not attracted to dark skin sexually, and probably could not continue to have sex with him and therefore would just be friends if he chose he wanted to visually change his ethnicity that drastically. It's not a matter of racism or sexism. I'm just not attracted to those things. It doesn't turn me on--- and if anything, turns me off. How can I commit my life to somebody who has gone back on the agreement we made going into the relationship? Even if it's unspoken, it's an agreement that they're one gender and I'm one gender and that's how it is. Some people may not care if they're bisexual, or peculiarly committed, but the vast majority of people are not that way and I wouldn't expect them to be. And it certainly doesn't compare to them changing hobbies.
Ava, I can't really imagine how difficult it is for wives of men who change sex ... but the racial thing I think is a bad analogy. Ok you have been honest but maybe you might want to think more about what you say before you post ... or why you feel that you couldn't find a Black person sexually attractive. I don't think your post does much to attract Black ppl to you, in any event .... totally out of order and nasty imho.

Fyi the reference to sports was half-joking but half-serious following Neal's post - as in, don't assume that a big strapping heterosexual man doesn't like interior decorating, for example, rather than tribal games - and 'vice versa' ;)
There's absolutely nothing wrong with what I said. It's a fine analogy. The point is that people can't help what they're attracted to. It's not like your spouse changing their hair color or wearing colored contacts. The point of the analogy was to show that gender is just as important to somebody's identity as race/ethnicity and the characteristics thereof that make up a person. Straight women aren't attracted to other women in any instance. I'm not attracted to dark skin in any instance. The point was that if a person changes their gender, it's as impacting to their identity as if they changed their race (i.e.: all of their bodily features), or we could replace that with the reverse-- a person in a relationship changing their sexual preference to bisexual when they're in a relationship with somebody who does not approve of that. In both instances (if one could change their racial characteristics or if they changed their sexual preference), the other spouse should not be expected to stay with the partner out of 'moral obligation', if anything, the moral violation here lies in the breach of contract when entering the relationship--- morally, the man should stay a man, and a woman should stay a woman, if they enter into the relationship that way with no foreknowledge on the other spouse's part that they have an interest in changing, otherwise they should not expect the other person to stay with them (that doesn't mean they won't, but it shouldn't be an expectation out of 'moral'). The reason I used dark skin as an analogy is because there's very little I can't be conditionally attracted to, extremely dark skin is simply a 'no go' for me that can't be negotiated and it has nothing to do with race. It's the same as how some guys would never date me because I'm extremely fair-skinned, where they preferred tan or dark skinned women. It's natural for a human to be attracted to certain sets of features almost exclusively. Likewise, I would never be attracted to somebody who was morbidly obese. Period.

The point, again, is that those things define you as much as your gender does as far as sex goes; like those things, and gender, people tend to have a strong sexual preference one way or the other and, if those things changed, the other spouse should not be expected to stay with the person if they aren't happy with that change.
Yeah, the analogy was fine. It is not racist to admit not being attracted to certain races. I think it is an accepted fact that people generally are attracted to people that look like themselves.
I don't think your post does much to attract Black ppl to you, in any event .... totally out of order and nasty imho.

I completely disagree; I don't think that there is anything out of order nor nasty about describing what one is attracted to. Sexual attraction is largely an irrational process; we don't consciously think about our attractions nor formulate lines of reasoning to support our preferences. In my experience, sexual attraction is an instinctual reaction based on physical cues that is not able to be consciously controlled. I can neither force myself to be attracted to someone nor can I force myself to not be attracted to someone.

Is it only offensive because it is a white person expressing a lack of sexual attraction for black people? (I'm assuming that Ava's avatar depicts herself.) What if it was a black person expressing a lack of attraction for white people, or a white person expressing a lack of attraction for white people? Would it still be as offensive?
I think our attractions/ revulsions are often culturally determined and I think in the case of race especially. I think this is an area it would have been more helpful to keep to yourself as unnecessarily divisive amongst atheists ... and/or perhaps do some self-examination? And you don't realise how rude/arrogant you are being.

My 'extended family' has different races ... I do not believe that sexual attraction is genetic or unfixed - I'm wondering why, Ava, you said this was 'non negotiable'. I find it surprising and unfortunate that a person feels him or herself so free to be offensive to a whole race or so fixed in their opinions.

Shine, I totally agree, racism is not confined to white ppl. However, none of us is 'pure' are we? And history teaches that individuals of different races ARE very often attracted to each other so maybe 'think on't' ;)


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