The question is: what if "enhanced interrogation techniques" helped give tips that led to the capture of Bin Laden?? If so, is "water-boarding" justified in certain rare situations authorized on an individual basis by the President of the United States?


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My ticking time bomb fallacy is right here:


So now you've at least given something of merit, but let's take a closer look.


McNab isn't citing his own experience with torture there - he's making a claim that bombings were prevented; now I have to ask, where is the evidence for that claim?  Where is the documentation of these 'terrorists' being arrested, bomb making materials in hand, map to a target, all led to by evidence gained through torture?


The evidence I have provided clearly indicates the technique did NOT work with KSM.  Have you any documentation of actionable intelligence gained from a terrorist?



Not everything is (publicly) documented, especially illegal acts.

As for your fallacy, firstly the audacity of believing you have invented one astounds me. Secondly, it holds no merit.

"Have you any documentation of actionable intelligence gained from a terrorist?"

Did you read McNab's testimony? That's as close as you will ever get to confirmation.

"Everyone breaks eventually." Wonder why that is a saying..

Everyone breaks eventually - except for KSM, apparently.  Oh sure, he gave up some information, but it didn't stop his bomb plots from moving forward.  He also confessed to a plot to hit L.A., which it seems was cancelled years earlier, whoops.  He confessed from plotting to kill everyone from Bill Clinton to the Pope - but he kept his bomb plot well guarded.


I'm sorry that the evidence for your case is locked away in a secret underground bunker with Jimmy Hoffa, Osama Bin Laden, and Sonny Bono - but I'm really going to need to see something compelling to think that torture has any potential to result in actionable intelligence.  After that, I'll need some pretty damn good assurances that innocents like Maher Arar aren't going to be tortured as well.  Finally, I'll need to know how the backlash from terrorists will be prevented, otherwise it just seems like the sort of thing that will result in more turmoil than it will quell.

I think most people here are talking about physical torture.

I'd be interested in hearing some views on psychological torture.

PS - I think techniques like sleep deprivation should be classified as physical torture.

It's inhumane and perpetrators like the one below should be shot on the spot. ;)


Oh she's notorious. The interwebs full of stories about her. But you should get the leader of this movement first. I hear its some Justin Beaver guy. People say his worse than OBL
Torture would be inefective though. There's no intelligence to be found. ;)
I'm glad you and I have found something to agree on. 

Sassan: So what do you think of what John McCain has to say about water boarding? Maybe you agree with what Rick Santorum  "McCain just doesn't understand torture lite" . Well Santorum called it "Enhanced Interrogation" but torture-lite has a better ring to it.

Turns out that KSM after being water boarded 183 time he gave false statements but some how that lead to Bin Laden 8 years later. We getting close to elections?



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