My basic view of the world is as follows...

I believe there is a God. I Believe that he created everything.

I believe atheists believe that the universe created itself.

I also believe that agnostics are to lazy and/or mentally unequipped to believe in anything no matter what. I therefore have no interest in dealing with agnostics.

Quantum mechanics allow for a universe to spontaneously create itself. It also requires that that everything can be measured. However, the universe is still referred to as infinite. Why? Because we just haven't figured out how.
If the universe was created by an explosion of some object, and everything was created by that object, then that object would be everywhere and still exist.
One of the first things people from religious families learn as children is "God is everywhere".
If god created the universe, and god is everywhere... And Something exploded and created the universe, and its everywhere... Whats the difference?
God cannot be measured, just as the universe cannot be measured... And for the same reason.

On to creationism. I am NOT a creationist. A creationist by definition does not believe in evolution. Only an idiot would not believe in something so logical and probable... almost proven even.
On the other hand, I also am not an evolutionist. An evolutionist by definition does not beleive in creation.

I believe in both. Here's why...
The story of creation says that god created the world in 7 days. That has been proven wrong.
It has also been all but proven that the stages of the creation of universe happened in the same order as they did in the story of creation.
So scrap the word "day" and change it for "stage". Guess what... Its accurate according to science.

On Adam and Eve... Been proven wrong, right? No.... It hasn't. Hasn't even been proven as improbable.
In the story of creation, God created man and woman on the sixth day. "Man and Women he created THEM" it says.
Then he rested on the seventh.
Then... Chapter two... He creates Adam and eve.
Notice, other than the gospels, which are 4 peoples separate accounts of one mans life, the bible does not repeat itself. It does not tell the same stories twice, it does not restate the laws more than once, ect. So why does it repeat itself here? The only logical conclusion is that these are two separate incidents.
Next piece of biblical evidence... After Adam and Eve were banished, they and their sons went to a place called Nod... Where Cain took a wife. Did he marry his sister? No... He married one of the woman or decedents of the first creation of man and woman. That section of the bible is not real clear on specific timelines....

Now... How exactly did it happen that before modern science, anyone was able to accurately portray the order of events in the creation of the universe? Either they were damn good at guessing, or someone told them.
God? I believe so...
Aliens? Maybe...
Was there a completely modern and civilized society somewhere else that then moved to Earth and created this wonderful story for control? Maybe...
I really don't know... I wasn't there... I believe its god...

Why Do I believe its god?
Think about the life of an agnostic. Never really believing in anything. "Could be one thing... Could be another... and until there is proof... I'm gonna ride the fence" They live in this piss-hole of a world and believe that it is everything there is. Who the hell wants THIS to be it?

Now the Atheists. They have thought about it. They have picked a side. they believe something without tangible evidence... Just like Religious people. However, they also believe this is it... Same goes... Honestly... This is all you hope for?

Then there is religious people.... Most of us have thought about it. The ones who haven't count in my mind as much as agnostics. We have decided that there is a God of some sort or anther. We believe that there is an afterlife. We believe that if we behave, believe, and show our faith by our acts, we will be eternally rewarded with never ending happiness. If we don’t... well... The opposite.

To close... I could be wrong. There could be no after life. this crap-hole could be it. I could be wasting me time. The Atheists could be right.... And y'all know what? You can be pleased for eternity while the worms eat your face.

I could also very well be right. At which point.... Sucks to be you bru...

There is also another possibility... I could be right, but have chosen the wrong religion... At which point, guess I'll see you in hell.

The point to all of this is simple. No mans belief's are anymore open for ridicule and being called myth and fantasy until SOMEONE proves beyond ALL (not reasonable, But all) doubt that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Excepting of course people that still follow religions that science has already proved beyond all doubt that they are wrong... I cant think of any.

Can anyone actually commune the the dead so that we know?

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they are here to evangelise.

To be fair, Liam said he stumbleUpon'd the site and we agreed before this discussion started that no one would be doing any conversion attempts.


xians don't read anything - including their bible. And they don't answer questions

Part of the reason I wanted to have a proper discussion with Liam... He seemed to actually have his own opinion of the world rather than what his church said it should be. It seems we may of scared him off when we ripped his beliefs to shreds.

We agreed - You may have, I didn't agree - xians come onto this site to tell me about their bible - big mistake - I want him/them to know it is a waste of time to quote the bible to me, and not read what I say. They can't see anybodies point of view except their own, they want and need their religion - and that's okay - I don't care what people believe or not believe. I would not have the arrogance or stupidity of going onto a xian site and saying their bible was myth and legend, copied and retrofitted.


This bloke didn't get what I was saying, about how similar many fables are to his bible - he didn't get it - so there you go - typical. Lately there were three or four of them. I asked three of them questions - did not answer - so I just got real. He had been indoctrinated - why would he just keep quoting the bible.


How many times have these people been told it has to be proven by them there is a god - the same way I have to prove I am being followed by a lovely White Unicorn?


Anybody want to keep the discussion going, of course you can - it's called democracy.

I completely agree with you, when xians use scripture to make their point I stop listening to them.  It’s the same as if you were speaking with an adult about how eggs cannot be green and they replied by quoting a Dr.Seuss book as proof of such claim.  Its fiction, and has not been proven otherwise.  To think anything different shows that the person isn’t even trying to understand or use logic, they are just living a fantasy.

By the by: My body is going to the University of Anatomy - for research, so new doctors can practice cutting me up - no worms going to eat me - going to do some good, even when I am dead.....

Yes, I would rather my remains be used for study and research, it’s the least I can do to try and advance science after I’m dead, after all, what will I need the cadaver for anyway?

And they roll on - in a country filled with superstition and the uneducated - 


Christian preachers in Africa claim to be able to identify witches and they can - for a fee - cleanse these people of their wickedness. Identifying such "witches" has become a profitable sideline.

Some Africans believe that albinos have magical powers that bring fortune and good health.

The UN High Commission has said that there no reliable statistics on the numbers of victims each year.


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