Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Nelson on March 15, 2012 at 5:05pm

Postermodern, amoral fatalism.

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Permalink Reply by Evan Meinel on March 15, 2012 at 6:17pm

care to expand on that?

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Permalink Reply by Nelson on March 15, 2012 at 6:38pm

Sure! :)

The idea that nothing is true is surely postmodern in the sense that postmodernists argued that everything was interpretation and to the extent that that was true, everyone's interpretation was as valid as any other. This meant that there was no such thing as truth the way we mean it when we talk about something as true, there were only truths, with each no more true (in the traditional sense) than any other. But it is surely false that "Nothing is true"; we know plenty of things are true and we know plenty of things aren't and we can adjudicate between propositions to determine which is which.

"Everything is permitted" is pretty much the definition of "amoral". And again, it surely is not the case that everything is permitted. Now, I'm not sure if the creed is meant to suggest that everything is permitted because nothing is true, or if nothing is true AND everything is permitted. If nothing is true would it follow that everything is permitted? It's not at all clear that it would. Let's say that nothing is true. By sheer force of logic are we committed to the notion that we no longer have any reason to be moral? Our moral sense evolved as a solution to the hurdles presented to survival and reproduction in our ancestral environments. And it did so in that ancestral environment even before there was an understanding of whether and which things are true. I mean, it actually evolved in our ancestors that were unlikely to be capable of the higher order thought that would enable them to ruminate on whether and which things are true. And yet they still had this moral sense.

And so therefore it's fatalistic because, even if there was no truth (or that everyone's truth is equally valuable; the same thing as far as we're concerned), that wouldn't mean that we should adopt this depressing "all is lost" nothing matters kill or be killed amoral attitude. And yet this is what the creed seems to be saying. 

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Permalink Reply by Logicallunatic on March 16, 2012 at 11:17pm

it is surely false that "Nothing is true"

That's surely true. The statement "Nothing is true" is an oxymoron as it relies on truth in the first place, it cuts off the branch upon which it sits. The kind of postmodernism you have explained is nothing but self important, prancing, multisyllabic vacuous nonsense. Obscurantism defined... It’s an attack on common sense and clarity. 

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Permalink Reply by Greg Gorey on March 15, 2012 at 5:35pm

it is a really overrated game with a lame and repetitive combat system.

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Permalink Reply by Nelson on March 15, 2012 at 5:38pm

I think he's asking about the creed itself, not the game. That's how I read it. Certainly that's the discussion that's appropriate for the open forum as opposed to Atheist Gamers group for instance.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Reardon on March 15, 2012 at 5:46pm

Not much!

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Permalink Reply by Hank Hell on March 15, 2012 at 8:30pm

Tenchu was way better.

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on March 16, 2012 at 12:06am

"Everything is permitted" is a concept explored by fatalist Ivan Karamazov, which character Dostoevsky counterbalanced by the character of Ivan's youngest brother, Alyosha, a monk, in The Brothers Karamazov; though the two never met, the concept was arrived at simultaneously, yet separately, by Friedrich Nietzsche.

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Permalink Reply by IEatDinosaurMeat on March 16, 2012 at 3:39am

The thing is, it's along the same logical lines of "if god's gonna forgive you anyway, there's no consequence." If you're looking to justify actions based on what sort of moral guidelines you have or don't have you will. There is a stark difference between morality and integrity.

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Permalink Reply by Nina van der Roos on March 16, 2012 at 5:42am

Assassin's what ?

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Permalink Reply by Morgan Matthew on March 16, 2012 at 12:09pm

This:

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