Are you a hedonist? The question is harder for me to answer about myself than I thought and it (somewhat) bothers me.

Here's a basic Wikipedia article for definition purposes:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonism

Hedonism is a school of thought that argues that pleasure is the only intrinsic good.[1] In very simple terms, a hedonist strives to maximize net pleasure (pleasure minus pain).


Christians would say it is "of satan" lol

For me, it poses a problem of selfishness. Is hedonism equivalent to selfishness? Or even psychopathy? How do you define "healthy hedonism" if there is such a thing?

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Perhaps I don't care to live by what's best for others?  

Creating a logically consistent and superior moral code is all fine and dandy but at the end of the day, every person get's to choose how they want to live.  

I wouldn't receive pleasure following your moral code.  Why should I switch?  I'm content to receive pleasure for myself as long as it does little to no harm to others.  

Dustin, I'm suggesting which is a better system overall, and if it is a better system, why not make the switch?

If the only reason is because it's not a better system for you, then I feel plenty fine condemning your system, because your system prevents the best system from happening. 

Would you not agree that the best moral system is the one worth dying for? And that your system of living for yourself is inherently not worth dying for?

And Belle, what I'm suggesting is in fact Christianity, putting others first even if it's at the expense of yourself. You however, have turned that into codependency because you simply can't let go of the idea that selfishness doesn't have to be a part of it. Once you let go of that, you might understand what exactly Christianity is.

"why not make the switch?"

Because 'best for everyone' does not necessarily mean 'best for me'

"then I feel plenty fine condemning your system"

I'm fine with that :)

"because your system prevents the best system from happening."

I think there are other systems that block your system more-so than Hedonistic systems.

"Would you not agree that the best moral system is the one worth dying for?"

I do not agree to this.  More than one system can be worth dying for.  Death should not be attributable to ONLY the BEST system, but other systems that can be considered GOOD.  

"And that your system of living for yourself is inherently not worth dying for?"

I don't want to die for 'my' system.  I want to live and live happily with pleasure.  

********************

Your opinion on the best good for everyone does not fit my personal and perhaps selfish desires to live pleasurably.  

Which is also why I still eat meat.  I agree with all the arguments about not eating meat and yet I still eat meat.  Why?  Because I simply don't care enough about the arguments to give up meat.  I like eating meat.  It makes me happy. 

Would anyone argue with me if I said that maximizing net pleasure for others, even if it's at your own expense, is simply the right thing to do?

No, but that's because you're opening with a burden of proof fallacy, not because there are no counter arguments. 

How can putting others first NOT be better?

You claim that maximizing net pleasure for others, even at your own expense, is simply the right thing to do (and is superior to hedonism). It falls to you to support that claim with a reasonable argument, not for others to disprove your claim.

Would you not agree that the best moral system is the one worth dying for?

Muslim extremists are vying with you for first place on that one!

Dustin, I'm suggesting which is a better system overall, and if it is a better system...

You're claiming to have a better system without supporting the claim.

Dismissed.

If the only reason is because it's not a better system for you, then I feel plenty fine condemning your system, because your system prevents the best system from happening.

Note that you've upped the ante from having "a better system" to having "the best system" and still have not supported the claim.

Dismissed.

Would you not agree that the best moral system is the one worth dying for? And that your system of living for yourself is inherently not worth dying for?

You have yet to present any reasoning as to what is the best moral system and why it's the best moral system, let alone that it's worth dying for (whatever that means).

Dismissed.

And Belle, what I'm suggesting is in fact Christianity, putting others first even if it's at the expense of yourself.

What you're doing is, in fact, falsely crediting Christianity with altruism, a social behavior in humans and animals which predates your religion by millions of years.

You however, have turned that into codependency because you simply can't let go of the idea that selfishness doesn't have to be a part of it.

Belle didn't turn Christianity into anything, Jerod. A victim of codependency is not responsible for her own abuse. You simply refuse to accept that Christianity is sometimes used to control and manipulate others for selfish reasons in marital and family relationships. And ethical hedonism does not preclude consideration for others.

Once you let go of that, you might understand what exactly Christianity is.

Atheists as a whole know your product better than anyone in the general public, Jerod. We just don't buy it because you and your ilk are extremely poor salesmen.

Oh, is Jerod Smith Christian?  That may better explain his line of questioning then...

STILL waiting for Jerod Smith to address Gallups and my points of contention.  

You there Jerod or did you give up? Essentially conceding defeat?

I's scratching my head on that, too. I sense mostly an undercurrent of Christiany hostility.

Happiness and contentment are the ideals everyone should strive to achieve. Can maximizing your net pleasure achieve this? I'd say hedonism is equivalent to greed not selfishness. We are all inherently selfish and that's not a bad thing but seeking greed will always leave you feeling unfulfilled and unhappy. How you define controlled pleasure seeking?

Sometimes pleasure comes not in a physical way but mental. so it may be in your interest to reduce someone elses pain in order to reduce your own.  "I wish the girl in the room next door would stop crying" maybe I can go and cheer her up so I don't have to feel uncomfortable, but I don't like talking to people, Which pain is less and which pain will bring greater pleasure later.  I'm being selfish by going to help the girl reduce her pain in order to reduce mine. 

Hard work will lead to a flourishing garden of food, I hope, if it doesn't then I feel pain and sorrow for the lost effort and physical work. If it does I feel lots of pleasure in eating what I grew. So each week I try to sow more seeds and propogate more cuttings to ensure my success. The pain of doing that over time should hopefully, eventually be dwarfed by the pleasure of my full and successful garden.

Hedonism and Tetrapharmkos are two cool ideas to live by, because it keeps you from going to any extreme because extremes inherently cause pain. Being too lazy will cause you body pain, being too gungho with exercise can cause you body pain. Get as much pleasure as you can without being in or causing pain in yourself or others because pain in others will come back to pain you. Don't fear gods, don't fear death, get enough to not have want and suffering is relevant to pain. 

If I can remember those I'll be better off, but sometimes I forget and my daily life gets really shitty until I find a happier spot again. 

I don't know if someone else has made this point or not...
There is such a thing as christian hedonism. John Piper developed the terminology.

I don't expect the theological ideas to be accepted here but the idea is that God is where we find the most joy.

It's probably not what you think but same idea just a different object.

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