This is what I need to know.  I don't want to comment, only listen. 

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You're totally right.  'A real man'.  But you are not saying what a 'real man' is.  

You're also not saying what 'being himself' is either.  These are female code for 'be the kind of guy that women like' - But the problem is that a lot of men aren't aware of these things.  

And it's totally possible to approach women in bars and other places.  These women would NEVER come up to you and initiate.  Something else a lot of women fail to realize...that men have to do all the work in the beginning and you all just sit there and look pretty.  


I think you worry about it too much Dustin, Is that you in the piccy?

Your a nice looking guy . Have you tried any of the reputable dating sites.

I hear they are quite good. I know two people who have developed good strong relationships from those.

Im going to try one when Im ready.

Yes I have tried ok Cupid.  It works pretty well, been on dates with about 12 different girls, most didn't work out.  4 of them worked out well enough and I'm still friends with 2 of 'em.  But I usually like to just approach girls where I meet them anyway.  

And yes it's me and thank you.  

It's not that I worry about it, it's that it annoys me that females don't actually express themselves honestly.  They use coded language that they just expect guys to understand.  But I think you're doing a better job at talking about the 'make a woman laugh' idea...I still think it doesn't really say much.  How do you get there?  How do you do it?  Part of it is to meet a lot of women.  That means you have to get numbers and approach and date a lot. Find what works and what doesn't.  This is something that is pretty hard for a lot of guys to accomplish.  To get better at it, it helps to get an understanding of what women are looking for and what they secretly want/need rather than speaking in their woman code.  

I'm on ok Cupid, too. It's become mostly for the amusement of the women they seem to think I'd be interested in. Of course, I'm not on there to find friends, which may be part of it. I get all the friendship and platonic love I need right here on TA. I'm looking for the knockout, preferably around 18-25, probably due to my years of photographing naked and nubile young women. My standards are very high in the physical department. I suppose I might go for an older woman along the lines of, say, Naomi Watts or Diane Lane with some prodding, but otherwise...

I wouldn't have thought this forum could stoop to the level of the average Men's Health article.

What is this bs? "Women want you to know without asking, but to know you have to ask."

Then just get over yourself and say it. I can let this shit slide if you're like 10-17 years old, and you're just honing the new manipulative superpowers your tits grant you, but past that you're a grown person and we have more important things to do than guess-what-princess-wants. What does the average women want? Just attention, apparently.

If humanity could stop with this song and dance of just trying to fuck each other for like 5 minutes, we could have colonies on mars by now.

"What does the average women want? Just attention, apparently."

This is true.  They also expect men to put them on a pedestal.  Hold doors for them, pull out the chair for them at a lovely restaurant.  In an argument, Agree that women are right when we all know they aren't.  I do all these things myself simply because it's expected.  But when a woman attempts to gain control and starts to be manipulative, I stop it immediately. If they don't like it, I'm done with them and will find someone else.  

They say that 'no means no', but in reality when a girl says no to me it only takes but a tiny tiny bit of extra persistence to get that next layer off and then they are perfectly happy saying 'no' at the next item of clothing, ad nauseum until they are completely naked in your bed.  Kiss their neck a few times, 'I'll count to 5 slowly and if you still feel the same way, we can stop'...5...4....kiss their neck...3...2...kiss their neck again...1....  No is usually just an impulse reaction from a female who feels like they are obligated to say it.  Now if they say stop, that is something else altogether.  I stop immediately.  Stop means stop.    

 And if you don't do something they want you to do they cry out that 'you don't understand me' or 'you don't care about me' etc etc.  Women want what they want and if the man doesn't give it to them, it's the mans fault.  

A woman will let themselves go after marriage and claim the man doesn't love them anymore 'for who they are'.  What every man would love to say is...damn right sweety, I loved you when you weighed 120 and looked sexy, not at 160.  But oh, the reaction the man would receive if he simply just states his mind in this manner.  

But I do still love women and can't live without 'em :)

They say that 'no means no', and if you don't do something they want you to do they cry out that 'you don't understand me' or 'you don't care about me' etc etc.  Women want what they want and if the man doesn't give it to them, it's the mans fault.  

I seem to remember a study of college women who were asked "Have you ever said no when you meant yes to a sexual advance?" and an astoundingly high percentage (a clear majority) admitted that they had done so. The reason given by the researchers is that in doing so the women were forcing their partner to be the responsible party. They wanted a sort of plausible deniability that wouldn't be there if they said "Yeah, let's f_ck."

What I don't remember is what happened for the guys who stopped at the word no. Did they end up getting laid?

Probably not.

I met a girl once who most of you will probably regard as mentally sick. She told me she couldn't orgasm unless she were (as she put it) "taken" by a man in the midst of resisting him mightily. Lovemaking just didn't do it for her.

The point is, "No means no," like so many bumper stickers, doesn't really fit in a world that's a whole lot more complicated than that. There will always be some men who can read when resistance is sincere and others who just don't get it.

"What I don't remember is what happened for the guys who stopped at the word no. Did they end up getting laid?"

No, they did not end up getting laid.  That part is obvious :)  

I'm not saying no always means yes...I'm saying it usually doesn't in fact mean no and they're just waiting for you to make another move to 'convince' them of this fact.  

I'm not asking anybody out.  It's more of a women's rights issue.  I understand that feminism is as much about the politics of the personal and everyday as the civic and public. 

@Strega - that is something my partner has said "I wish I could get into your head". Nah, don't bother, you still wouldn't understand :) Viva le difference.

Equal pay for equal work would be a good start - don't underestimate women, don't lump all women together, as we are very different from each other. A man has to find the woman that suits him - because he is different to all other men. To be respected, to be able to walk and work wherever they wish, without fear, without being abused, sexually harrased or raped, would be another good one.

If a woman has a problem at work, say, just listen, don't try and fix it, 'cause you can't, just listen.

I am a feminist, and I have two sons, and I have great respect for men and their work ethic, to support and feed their families - but, women need more men to step up, in situations like the following -

This is commonplace, especially in the armed forces.

It is sad to see an us and them situation. We both need each other.

I think that is why gays, especially women, get on so well, they understand the others thinking - no contest. I think the idea that women like muscle men is pushed by advertising, 'cause I don't know one female who likes brawn over brain. At least we have evolved that far.

The problem with equal pay for equal work is a difference in the definition of "equal work" as used by the two sexes. For men, it often means how well one does the job whereas for women it often comes down to the job title. So, if a female widget maker makes statistically 15% less than a male, they will jump on that as an unfair pay differential.

However, if you look more closely, you might find that the women take more time off, use more sick days, insist on taking whatever breaks the job allows them so they can smoke the cigarette they're addicted to (and yes, men do this, too, but probably in smaller numbers).

Additionally, they may be less likely to keep going after closing time in order to make sure the work gets done ASAP.

Yes, they may be taking off to pick up their children, but having a child is a personal choice and when one has a child, one accepts the consequences.

To compare the pay of men and women means comparing apples to apples. Find the woman who might as well be a man in terms all the above, and then you have a valid comparison.

Another factor is a womans inability to negotiate for a higher salary.  I have a friend and she said there was a seminar in her business school that focused specifically on how females can negotiate a higher salary.  She said it's a problem not always because females are paid less simply because they are females but they are paid less because females are not sharks like men are in this regard. 


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