This is what I need to know.  I don't want to comment, only listen. 

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Well, one problem is that every individual woman seems to think that what she wants is what every woman wants, which simply isn't the case. However, a guy seeking a female partner meets many different women with many different ideas along the way. Doing what the last woman wanted may have you messing up with the next one.

Exxxactly. Not all women are the same. It's not just a catchy phrase meant to make women all feel individually "special" either; we don't all want the same things.

My friend is your typical girl that likes the bad-boy type. She says she doesn't like good guys. What's she's really saying is she doesn't like desperate, clingy guys... but she can't make the distinction. And, honestly, I dunno if men are able to make the distinction. Guys think they're "good" when they always open the door, pay for dinner, and generally hang on every word their girls says, and basically becomes her whipping-boy. Like, there is a point in which attentive becomes obsessive and weird. Desperation suits no one (not even women), but men seem to equate desperation with being a good guy. So, if my friend gives me any clue as to why so many women like bad-boys, it's because they truly believe the alternative is that sappy guy who showers her with affection, gifts, and compliments and never thinks of himself. It's weird and scary. That guy is stalker material.

But I'm not typical. I don't want flowers, dinner, jewelry, or romantic evenings. I hate chick flicks. I generally dislike what most females love, and it's because I find it all shallow and artificial. I think women are TOLD what to want, and they tell you what they're supposed to say they want. They believe they want you to take them on dates, and open the doors, and be chivalrous because they're supposed to want it... and you're supposed to do it. If you don't do it, they've been told it means you don't truly love them. A man who loves you would do A, B, and C... and, whether you like A, B, and C is irrelevant. "The message" is in your head that those are necessary things to acquire from the man who loves you.

My boyfriend and I have a non-typical, non-traditional relationship. Before I ever met him I'd decided I don't want a big wedding (if any wedding at all), that I don't want kids, that I don't really care about Valentine's Day, etc. I've been independent my whole life. I've never gotten used to "special" treatment. I actually find it irritating. I've had to pay for everything all my life... my parents have barely helped me. I've worked my ass off. I'm capable and I don't feel entitled to being treated differently, or as weak, or special, or fragile. I just want to walk through the fucking door. I appreciate that you want to hold it open for me, in the same way the dude behind you would appreciate it if you held it for him. But, please don't insist I stop and wait for you to open the door... because I'm a "lady" and I "deserve" to have the door held. Let's just get through the door, okay? Let's not make it a big production.

BUT!!! In the first year with my boyfriend, I got mind fucked. I still didn't want those things, but "the message" was so deeply ingrained that I thought if I didn't get those things, it meant he didn't love me. "If he doesn't ___, he's just not that into you." And, in my head I reminded myself I didn't want ___ anyway! But, the ingrained message haunted me. It told me it didn't matter; the fact my boyfriend didn't do ___, and didn't want to do ___ meant he didn't love me... and I should break up with him and move on to a guy who would do what I didn't want him to do anyway, because ___ meant he loved me.

Yeah. You see how fucked up all that is. But I think it's a reality women have to deal with. We're told what to want, what to look for, how to attain it, and all the reasons why. Even if you find a less conventional girl, she's still got all that swirling in her head... and it's confusing. We're told we're contradictory, too, because we all say we want a nice guy but always end up with a bad boy. But what we don't realize is what society considers "nice" is borderline creepy, and definitely desperate. And maybe we don't want a diamond ring, but not receiving one means our guy isn't into us.

Whatevz. We're as confused as you. But what do men want? I can only assume the sweeping answer is "sex."

P.S. I want true equality. Women in combat. Women in the draft. Women paying for their dinner. Women truly taking on the responsibility they're so desperate for. And you bet your ass they can perform.

I have never heard these words come from a woman before.  Never.  

But again, this is going to make me sound sexist but...I don't think most women are yearning for more responsibility.  I think they are just yearning for equality without the responsibility.  

The reason I don't think they are is because my ears have never heard it.  

And Cara, the thing you said above about the 'bad boy' type.  All my life, girls/women say they are looking for a sweet, sensitive, intelligent, funny, blah blah blah guy.  They say that I am 'perfect boyfriend material'.  That I will make a girl feel special someday.  That more guys should be like me.  

Obviously I was not having any luck in this regard.  I kept getting 'friend zoned'.

Then I had a female friend at work tell me that everything they have ever said is a total lie.  That they are all full of shit and just pretending.  She explained to me why they say these things and why they don't actually mean them.

Once I started to become more like a dick and hide my kindness and sensitivity and intelligence and sweetness I get a lot better reactions.  

I'm still respectful, courteous, fun.  But I act more aggressive in a flirtatious, sexual way.  I get much better reactions.  I'm no longer the 'nice guy'.  I tease a lot more.  I play games a lot more.  When I'm in this state of mind I act more confident because I see it achieves better results.  

But then eventually my naturally sweet/affectionate/nice/romantic side of me starts to come out and then the girls run for the hills.  So I go back to being the bad boy type.   

It's true that what a girl says they want in a relationship or a boyfriend is not what they actually want.   And it's also true that most of my female friends were nice to a fault by leading me on thinking that I should do exactly what I've been doing and then that 'special someone' will find me and fall in love.  

So the whole 'be yourself' line is a load of crap.  Women only say this because they can't bring themselves to think that a guy could EVER act some way that he naturally isn't to get females...that would be totally unacceptable.  That would be...manipulative!  

 "because my ears have never heard it"

All Hail Dustin's Ears

"Then I had a female friend at work tell me that everything they ever said was a total lie"

Ever heard of Borderline Personality Disorder?

Its more common than you think.

Do you offer to pay for the first date?  Would you volunteer to be the one drafted into the army if it was a choice between yourself and your husband?  Answer honestly.  

I don't go on "first dates" anymore, but the last one I went on... I paid for my Starbucks coffee, and the rest is history. ;)

Oh, and... I really love my boyfriend. I'd be heartbroken if he were drafted, and I just might volunteer myself in his stead, yes... if I were given that choice. I'd hope we'd both love each other enough to try to spare the other.

But you would have to volunteer yourself in secrecy because the man would never allow his baby girl to take his place in war.  

Or would he?  ;)

What if she was Xena, Warrior Princess?

And let's say I do have BPD.  Then all the women who tell me to 'be myself' would mean that I would naturally follow the symptoms of BPD.  

On the other hand causes of BPD include.  

  • Abandonment in childhood or adolescence

  • Disrupted family life

  • Poor communication in the family

  • Sexual, physical, or emotional abuse

Yep.  That sums up my life in a nutshell.  

The symptoms of BPD are the following: 

Persons with BPD are often uncertain about their identity. As a result, their interests and values can change rapidly. They also tend to view things in terms of extremes, such as either all good or all bad. Their views of other people can change quickly. A person who is looked up to one day may be looked down on the next day. These suddenly shifting feelings often lead to intense and unstable relationships.

I show minor signs of some of these but I wouldn't say it haunts my interactions with most people to any high degree.    

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