Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Marc on January 7, 2013 at 10:55am

Which aligns exactly with my intent if you have ever had a discussion with a theist who doesn't believe that homosexuality is biological, and it is indeed cultural, and that almost all homosexuals are so because they have been molested, had bad parental role models, or are somehow acting out for attention.

To your second point, yes, yes point conceded. Which also make religious education at an early age so popular. I taught my kids to be atheists as easily as I could have taught them to be theists, at least to the point that they develop critical thinking skills and the strength to stand by their own convictions.

Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on January 7, 2013 at 11:16am

As regarding homosexuality, I would have to take a mid-point stance, as it is a well-recognized tenet of biology that one can never separate the influences of heredity and environment.

Permalink Reply by Strega on January 7, 2013 at 12:00pm

There are twins and siblings who turn out differently in their sexual orientation. Most of us (gays) are completely aware of our orientation as soon as we reach puberty.  I hesitate to believe that heredity plays a part, simply because gays don't procreate to the extent heteros do.  The 'gay gene' would have been bred out by now.  As to environment, I refer to the twin situation - one gay, one hetero.  I have read a fair bit about 'gaydom' as you can probably imagine, and I do not think that heredity or environment contribute more that a passing nudge towards a person being gay. 

The ferocious studies carried out, funnily enough in the more anti-gay communities, have strained and stressed to pinpoint a cause, mostly so they can effect a change.  They have all failed to achieve the clarity they were seeking.

Permalink Reply by Gallup's Mirror on January 7, 2013 at 12:39pm

The ferocious studies carried out, funnily enough in the more anti-gay communities, have strained and stressed to pinpoint a cause, mostly so they can effect a change.  They have all failed to achieve the clarity they were seeking.

Why seek the causes of homosexuality but utterly ignore the causes of left-handedness, which afflicts even more people?

These lefties are forcing the rest of us to accept their left-handedness as a legitimate lifestyle. Just last week a waiter wrote left-handed in front of my young daughter. They can legally marry in all fifty states (except Alabama). There's even a copy of that 'Heather's Mommy is Left-handed' book on display down at the Barnes and Noble. What are we coming to?

Maybe, if we can discover the causes of left-handedness, we might someday find a cure for it. 

Permalink Reply by Marc on January 7, 2013 at 1:05pm

I intentionally used the phrase 'almost all' purposefully, as I also believe that there are some people that can be influenced by the environment they were brought up in, in terms of their sexuality, I don't think the vast majority of homosexuals are nurtured into it.

As the parent of a gay child who knew she was gay from around the age of 11, even though it and wasn't a topic of conversation until about 13, I observed and pretty suspected it to be true when she was 11 as well.

I am a conservative xian's nightmare failure as a parent. I was such a bad male father figure that my daughter is gay, and so ignorant about keeping races in their proper place, that my son has been dating a mixed race girl for about 3 years now, and some how he's got this crazy idea in his head that it is proper and acceptable.

I'm hopeless.

Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on January 7, 2013 at 1:32pm

Actually Strega, the one reason I hesitated to post what I did above (though I continue to maintain that heredity and environment combine in every instance of human development I can think of), was that I recalled a case study from my early college Psych class, of twins, orphaned at birth, raised separately with no contact, both were found to be gay upon adulthood. Of course the fact was just laid out there, without any further detail as to what their independent environments were like, but at face value, that instance would appear to be the exception to the rule, a statistical fluke.

Permalink Reply by Strega on January 9, 2013 at 11:43am

Actually Strega, the one reason I hesitated to post what I did above (though I continue to maintain that heredity and environment combine in every instance of human development I can think of), was that I recalled a case study from my early college Psych class, of twins, orphaned at birth, raised separately with no contact, both were found to be gay upon adulthood. Of course the fact was just laid out there, without any further detail as to what their independent environments were like, but at face value, that instance would appear to be the exception to the rule, a statistical fluke.

Yes, there are instances where more than one sibling, or twins have been gay.  But there are also many, many siblings and twins, where nobody has turned out to be gay. 

Gay parents, these days, have straight children, and vice versa.  One swallow doesn't make a summer.

Permalink Reply by Marc on January 8, 2013 at 9:20am

Regarding environmental influences, I remember seeing a very disturbing late night documentary on HBO years ago about male prostitution.

In the story, This guy who was now is his early 20's, I would guess, is a street hooker, essentially performing oral in dudes cars for money. As they dig into his back story you learned that he was a horribly sexually abused kid, whose father forced him to perform sex acts on him, which continue to the time of the documentary filming. In fact, they actually show the kid give the father a blow job before he leaves the apartment to hit the streets.

The father was obviously developmentally handicapped you could tell by the way he spoke and his appearance. Which is not to make an excuse for him as much as to further describe the environment that this kid was brought up in.

Permalink Reply by Marc on January 9, 2013 at 9:22am

I am going to say that in hindsight and with exterior assistance that what I think I've described above is not an example of environmentally influenced homosexual behavior, but rather learned behavior involving body parts that is the result of abuse, not a necessarily a result of desire, attraction, or sexual orientation.

In other words, knowing how to make donuts because you were forced to make donuts at gunpoint, doesn't mean you like to make make donuts.

Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on January 7, 2013 at 11:23am

@Gregg - RE: "babies are born without the capacity of belief"

This has been the central point of (one of) my ongoing contention(s) with Unseen, in that I assert we are all born atheists - without a belief in a god - while he maintains that atheism is a DISbelief in a god, and that since babies can't hold beliefs, neither are they capable of disbeliefs.

It's a question of definition, and I define atheism, not as a disbelief in a god, but a lack of a belief in a god, and that difference is significant.

Permalink Reply by Gregg R Thomas on January 9, 2013 at 7:40pm

@B.L. the D.H. comment was classic. :D

Permalink Reply by David Henson on January 14, 2013 at 10:42pm

Yeah that was great.

Like an ass suck. Idiot.

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