Hamas warned Israel: “We Love Death More Than You Love Life.” Hizbullah leader Hassan Nasrallah said “We are going to win, because they love life and we love death,” Two years before he killed thirteen people and wounded twenty-nine at Fort Hood, Texas, Nidal Malik Hasan prepared a slide show for his fellow Army doctors on the subject of Islam. One of his last points read: “We love death more than you love life!” The idea originated with a 7th-century Muslim commander who threatened his enemies with “an army of men that love death as you love life.” I assume that saying is the motto of Islam.

Hamas has built tunnels to infiltrate Israeli communities and perpetuate terrorist attacks. Child labor is used in this operation and according to an article published by the Institute for Palestine Studies, at least 160 children died during the construction of the tunnels. There have been more than 30 tunnels found, some of which lead directly to Israeli communities near the border with Gaza. These tunnels run right through residential neighborhoods.

Hamas uses civilian homes and structures to store weapons and rig explosives. Stockpiles of ammunition, grenades, automatic rifles, RPGs, explosives and other military equipment seized by IDF soldiers in Gaza were found in private Palestinian homes. This is part of the terrorist organization’s efforts to turn every building in Gaza into a weapon. Hamas treats the homes and civilian institutions of Gaza as military compounds.

Since July 8, 2014, Hamas has fired more than 2,450 rockets at Israel. They place their rocket and mortar launchers in populated areas, next to schools, hospitals and mosques then tells the people to stay in their houses when they expect a missile attack from Israel. Gaza's Interior Ministry, which in a statement on Hamas radio, dismissed Israel's warnings as “psychological warfare” and told those who left their homes to return and others to stay put. Israel dropped leaflets into the areas that will be fired upon that read: “Those who fail to comply with the instructions to leave immediately will endanger their lives and the lives of their families. Beware.”

They also fire dud missiles to warn residents of impending bombings, but Hamas tells its people to ignore these warnings.

All of these methods involving ordinary citizens of Gaza backs up the slogan “We Love Death More Than You Love Life.” It also is the reason that Hamas wants its innocent citizens to die. They do it so their people will be killed. It is good public relations for their cause to have a mounting death toll from the Israeli forces. Of course it is working as shown by so many protests all over the world. The only way these protests will stop is if Israel lays down its arms and gets defeated by the Palestinians.

Does anyone have an opinion on this?

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Yeah Adam but what's your beef again?

Belle has a point; please enlighten us western media suck ups who, according to you, don't have a clue. Seems like you are defending Hamas and piling the blame on Israel. But, pretty much, everything you've said on the subject is common knowledge so far. At least to me and other western media suck ups here on the site.

Seems to me that you have some personal knowledge on the subject. Can you expand on this without tossing hay makers at us? Where is all this animosity coming from?

I am also wondering where all the animosity is coming from. 

If those quotes, allegedly from the Hamas Covenant, are true, then they speak for themselves.  That doesn't mean Israel is free from blame.  This is a long-standing and convoluted conflict, about which I don't know many details.  However this conflict arose and has been fed and sustained, it is now fueling itself.

I am more sympathetic to Israel since finding out more about their explanation of why they have responded the way they have.  That doesn't mean I think they have unfettered license to kill Palestinians. 

As for Sam Harris, I've never heard or read anything he said or wrote that didn't make absolute sense to me, not because I blindly adore him, but because whatever it was, was just plain sensible.  It is true I have said I want to have his love child - I won't deny that. I said that because of the degree to which what he says resonates with what I feel to be true. 

Sam Harris is also quite critical of the Likud party, very critical of the settlements and in general utterly against any country based on religion or theocracy. He finds the existence of Israel as a Jewish state totally obscene. He finds Israelis to be bullies, provocative, utterly uncompromising even on the most basic of tenants of a road map to peace and marred in extremely difficult orthodox extremism on one side.

That being said...he is more vocal about factions like Hamas because of their disregard for innocent human lives in much of what they do and their constant use of religious rhetoric when they do it.

Sam Harris doesn't necessarily pick sides (though he finds the behaviour of Israel during the conflict far more ethical). He is simply most vocal about the faction that is using religion to justify the grossest current conduct in the conflict.

Sam Harris is also quite critical of the Likud party, very critical of the settlements and in general utterly against any country based on religion or theocracy. He finds the existence of Israel as a Jewish state totally obscene

Israel is based on ethnicity more than religion. It was founded post-Holocause, and Hitler didn't distinguish between practicing Jews and people of Jewish heritage.

What does this have to do with anything?

After more than fifty years of failed peace settlements/negotiations why is it so difficult for outsiders to stay out of the fray and just let these people kill one another? This is what they do. It's in their DNA it seems. The loss of innocent lives is a tragedy but these people will never reach a lasting agreement. Removing their respective religions would be a tremendous start in the right direction though.

Flood the area with weapons and wait for the last man standing, eh?

No. That would require an investment of money/resources. Just stay out of it, completely.

We can't stand to remain neutral. Given the lobbying influences exerted on our government by the pro-Jewish element that is not surprising.

We will continue to support Israel simply because we are committed to doing so, not because we are pro-Jewish.

A lot of people read a few articles on this and seem to become experts on the geopolitics of the Middle East and Gaza conflict. When in reality they know nothing. They talk in buzzwords and catchphrases like "firing rockets" and "right to defend itself" It's much more complex. My own view is a kind if Middle ground. Israel is an illegal occupying state but so what, there's no going back.They have to defend their citizens with force and if that means Palestinian children die, well that's just the reality of war. However, one point that bugs me. The conflict is disproportionately killing Palestinian civilians. 

The Israel-Gaza conflict, since it began, has killed 1,170 Of those, a shocking 815 are thought to be Palestinian civilians, and 232 of those children. That means that about 7 out of 10 total deaths are innocent Palestinian civilians, and 2 out of 10 innocent Palestinian children, an appallingly high rate. But I suppose Israel has a right to defend itself right? The terrorists, the rockets, Hamas are evil Islamists, what would you do? blah blah 

I forgot to mention Hamas indirectly cause Palestinian casualties by firing from civilian neighborhoods and store rockets in civilian buildings. This is a serious form of culpability.

However, one point that bugs me. The conflict is disproportionately killing Palestinian civilians.

But realize, if the proportions of the death toll were reversed, Hamas would be jubilant. In that sense, the proportions of the death toll don't give give us much to use to choose between the two sides.

Besides, when you go to war, the whole idea is "Kill a lot of them but a lot fewer of us," isn't it.

Israel is a country not to fuck with. They always have the Holocaust in the back of their mind and won't be pushed around ever again.


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