Greetings! I am just going to come out and say that I am what you might call I crazy, die hard, delusional Jesus freak, though I do not discourage any discussion about how wrong I am. That is essentially why I am here. I have somewhat become addicted to looking into religious discussion and anything and everything related to it. I want to acquire as much knowledge as I can, and I think this is an excellent place to do so. I am not here to offend anyone and I would love to be able to stay in this community for a while. I don't kow how accepting you guys are of outsiders, but judging by what I have seen on this site so far, most of you are pretty open. So, without further adieu, I would simply like to state how intrigued I am by atheism! From a theological perspective, you and I are polar opposites! I mean to the ends of the earth OPPOSITE.  I as a christian believe what I have read in the book of Proverbs: that fear of God is the beginnig of wisdom. With that, my entire life is constantly in pursuit of God and this wisdom! I don't fear him because He is evil, but because He is all powerful. Surely this makes sense? If an all powerful God did exist, it would be foolish not to be afraid of Him. I read somewhere in the quote of the day section, that the beginning of wisdom is the "conquering of fear". Obviously this quote was intended to directly oppose the verse from Proverbs, but I am curious nonetheless whether all or most of the atheist community agrees with this. This would have intriguing implications! Does your life center upon eliminating fear? Fear of the imaginary God, fear of man, fear of death? Do you strive to live a fearless life in the sense that you don't allow fear to control your actions? I would too if there were no God. But instead I WANT fear to control my every thought! I am completely aware of how foolish that is, but I am completely okay with that too!

I want to get on the same page with you here. We are all human beings. We are all more or less equally able to think logically. I believe that the pivotal point from where all logic flows is whether or not God exists. Let me start by saying that if God does not exist, then I would completely agree nearly atheist based ideology-everything that has anything to do with the secular world view, I would LIVE by. Now assume for a moment that you were on the same side as I am, all evidence aside. There is a God. He is the perfect King. Everyone loves Him and everyong respects Him and admires His wisdom. Everyone also fears Him, for if they are on the wrong side of the law, He can justly punish them. Who would respect a Ruler who was a pushover and didn't care about justice? Now, if this God was perfect in the absolute sense, would it not be logical to dedicate your life to trying to be like Him? And if you weren't afraid of Him, would you be able to do that? I just want to try to clarify that if what I believe is true, then I am following the logical course of action by allowing this fear/love combination to take over my life. Do you agree with me? Yes? Then the pivotal point I established earlier must be real, and all ideology flows in two general directions starting from whether you believe God is real or not. No? Then lets continue.


If you disagree with me, then twe have arrived at a second pivotal point in our differences. First being whether you believe in God, and the second (being on the belief side) whether you want to follow this God or not. What do you guys think about these pivotal points? Which one is more important?

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I get that vibe as well but why not give him the benefit of the doubt.

Jason. You can't hear me.

At least we know Jason exists.. and is therefore a better source for truth than your  possible god... Could you please disprove the existence of Jason? So we can understand how better to disprove your god..

Did you just compare jason's existence to God's?

And did you not just say you know Jason is real?

I don't see what you're getting at good sir.


Completely valid question to access your critical thinking skills... and very appropriate to the subject at hand... You came here to gain and share knowledge I take it.. So your deconstruction of a "definitive positive" could possibly be something new and even interesting to us..

Indeed, he could be presenting an example of Poe's law, but why waste his time here?  Most Atheists would find that morally reprehensible since such parodies are typically intended to show theists how ridiculous they and all he's doing is wasting the time of atheists.  If this is a ruse, then he's a troll rather than a satirist.
Indeed. Not sure if serious.
I'm trolled and what is this.
I was going to try to engage in "discussion" here, but then realized the futility of that. Isn't his from Proverbs:  "Like a dog that returns to its vomit, Is a fool who repeats his folly."  Too much folly here in the "questions" posed for me to respond to in any intelligent way.  Besides, several of you have made the arguments so well already!  
Well I'm beginning to believe this is just another satirist trying to cash in on the TamTamPamela bandwagon. A true fundy would at least make some claim that god 'revealed himself' or some other such poppycock, rather than trying to debate "god's love" with people who believe that 'god' does not exist.
If the original poster is honest and sincere, I applaud the attitude! Friendly discourse should be lauded and met with open arms.

For the most part, Bill, this discussions seems to have gravitated towards how 'We are all so different', but I would like to take a moment to step back and reflect on how we are 'yet so similar'.


One thing I've noticed is that when someone dies, all their loved ones seem to cry - Athiests and theists alike.  I think this is because deep down we both know that we have just lost a loved one, that we will never see them again.  It seems to be, Bill, that when it comes down to it we all know there is nothing more to come; it seems to be almost instinctual, or maybe it's just that there is a limit to how far one can go in subjugating their faculties of reason.


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