I wanted to get everyones perspective on the Christian mentality of "We are all born sinners". Obviously this is not a sentiment I agree with.
The only argument I have yet to hear from a Christian is "it just means we are not born perfect". Despite the fact that very few Christians define sin as "imperfect"
...would result in actions that most of us would consider immoral.
Mo, I'm happy to have left religion so far behind that, instead of immoral, I say harmful.
It's a reality-based notion.
You know, I have often heard it said that morality is a religious concept, but I find no reason to think this is true--except for the fact that the religious have tried to claim the authority of moral arbiters for centuries. If you look up the word, neither the definitions nor the etymology have anything to do with religion. Here is a link to the Dictionary.com definition: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moral?s=t
"Sin" in modern English is a religious concept, I agree. I'm not sure of the etymology. I think "harmful" or "immoral" works just fine, though. We Christians would agree with atheists that much of the content of morality is a function of Natural Law, which can be ascertained by Reason, without reference to God.
Christians believe that due to Eve convincing Adam to eat the apple from the tree of knowledge that it has ultimately ruined all perfections of humanity. The bible states that Adam and Eve were created to be PERFECT and the serpent was the devil in disguise to test God's creations. Hence, the Christians mentality of this... of course anyone with a logical thinking brain can point out the unlimited number of flaws from this little story but hey, it's what they think because they were forced in to it and they're too lazy to figure things out for themselves.
I don't agree with it. A baby is not born with any kind of mentality or "built in IQ" by any means. Just like a baby is not born with a religion. We are all born for one purpose...to maintain life and help sustain human life on Earth...that's my take on it. "Sin" is a man made term. I am pretty sure that it was created for those who knew how to write and such to have power over those that were illiterate and uneducated. That's always what I thought about the bible altogether anyways...
In the end, I disagree with their opinions also but that is all they are, opinions. An atheist cannot believe in this if they truly are an atheist simply because we don't believe in "sinning"...we believe in bad choices.
I am pretty sure that it was created for those who knew how to write and such to have power over those that were illiterate and uneducated.
No, I'm pretty sure it was "law" that was created for that purpose. :)
That is precisely what I had meant to say...hence "it was created for those who knew how to write and such to have POWER over those that were illiterate and uneducated"
That, to me, sounds like what "law" is.
I thought this mentality came from Adam and Eve eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge... Some call it the original sin, others call it the fall. Ultimately, since alot of churches are now saying that Genesis was a metaphor (because, come on.... talking snake...) they have to somehow keep up with the existing dogma that we are all born sinners. This leads to odd statements like
it just means we are not born perfect
Judith, you get my vote for best response!
Well, in my opinion, it makes total sense if you consider the beginning of the Christian (Catholic) church. What better way to get people to subscribe to your faith and display an obedience than to tell them that we are all inherently sinners thanks to Adam and Eve. We are all instantly destined for eternal torment....but wait... We have the cure. If you believe in Jesus and so on and so forth he can cleanse you and you can live in eternal joy if you just accept what we are selling. The idea comes from the early church's power hungry days and has carried forth to today. At least from my understanding
NO, I was NOT born a sinner. I have however perfected it to a fine art. :)