Ok. I am an a “Outspoken Atheist” I get myself involved with quite a few arguments with theists, not because I try to impose my belief, but because they try to impose their belief on me, and my nature demands that I
counteract the brainwashing nature of Christianity and other religions with
reason and understanding.

So. I have tried many, many things in debates and arguments with many Christians. I have tried learning a lot about their religions, and know more than most of them anyway….but they still NEVER seem to ATTEMPT to
give atheism or even agnosticism “A fair go”. They will always call me godless
or condemned to hell the next day…

Anyway, what I want to figure out is; is there any way an atheist/agnostic can persuade a strong religious believer into forgetting everything they think they know about the world, for even an hour, in an
attempt to present and explain to them the scientific nature of Atheism? Not
trying to “Convert” people here, I only wish to see people consider the other
options instead of forever locking themselves in a religious bubble. 

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That's a fantastic approach you have there, I especially like the "So in giving free will God would have known that it would caused humanity to sin, and therefore God creates the sin, then punishes us for letting us choose it?"
I will do some reading up on those verses as well as browse around myself for some of the numerous contradictions within the Bible.
""I'm sorry but I'm only accepting guidance from God himself or Jesus.""
That is perfect.
Thanks alot Martin.
"If God exterminated all evil creatures does that mean ducks and fish aren't evil? Since a great flood wouldn't have killed them?"

I know I'm nitpicking and it's kind of off topic, but a flood like the one described in the bible would have killed both fish and ducks. It would have killed fish because it would have mixed both fresh and salt water. Most fish are only adapted to one or the other. The salmon is one of the only fish I am aware of that can survive in both. Actually I think guppies can as well, but even then a global flood would have changed the fishes habitat so much and so rapidly that aside from maybe some deep sea dwelling fish it would be unlikely for any fish to survive. Ducks would die because it would be difficult if not impossible to find food.

Of course, this doesn't change how absurd the flood is. The question simply becomes where did all the fish come from if they all would have died in the flood and Noah didn't take them on the ark. Magic?
Noah's ark is probably in the top 40 most ridiculous biblical stories. Though. It made for a rather humorous Steve Carrel movie.
I think another great way to clash up against the Noah's ark story is simple.
"If only two of each animal were taken, why is it, that two species that have similar birth/death rates, could have outlandishly different population numbers?"
"How does one man get 2 of every animal onto one boat, if collecting 2 of every animal in the time of Noah, including sea travel to distant continents and finding animals, would have taken a life time or 9?"
"In the time of Noah, Australia was undiscovered, was their Kangaroo's on Noah's ark?"
"Why did Noah accept such a shit job? Seriously, that's alot of cleaning to do."
"How did he keep the animals under control and stop them from jumping overboard in mindless attempts to return to their natural habitat?"
"Why wasn't he mauled by the carnivorous animals?"
The list goes on.
Thanks for your wonderful responses guys.
Currently involved in rather heated debated with multiple members over gods will to create sin.
Help an Atheist brother out. The Christians have ganged up on about 3 lonely atheists :(
"the bible says to fear god, and that god is love, but also that there is no fear in love... im confused, can you spread some light on the subject".
I like that "Spread some light". Excellent.
I have read the bible a fair bit, but I think I will have to give some of the actual translations a geez.
Thanks for the recommendation.
It's going to depend largely on the nature of their belief. If it's a matter of closed-mindedness, there's a reason that they are closing their mind off. Something is causing that reaction, and it isn't rationality. If rationality is not what is motivating a given belief, attacking the belief rationally won't get you anywhere.

It's a matter of reading the reactions a person gives you and matching your approach to how they throw barriers up. Sympathize, look for opportunities for sincere dialog (even if it's off topic, even if it's heated), then provoke thoughts as opportunities arise. Consider also any baggage that you bring into the conversation yourself and make sure it doesn't affect your approach.

Getting through a closed mind is almost strictly a matter of manipulating human nature, in my opinion, and has little to do with making logical arguments. That said, employing fallacies or outright lies will only hurt a person's cause if they're making an appeal to reason (as opposed to conversion). Think of it as a strategy game.
An interesting way of looking at it, I will defiantly attempt this at the next opportunity. Seems very rational...
Though, of course it all changes if the close-minded person also happens to be obnoxiously stubborn. I guess those types are best left alone though.
Thanks for the great response.



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