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Permalink Reply by Nelson on November 19, 2011 at 1:29pm

Yeah, no. Let's look to the book A Chosen Faith, which "seeks to set out what it is that Unitarian Universalists believe." "Beacon Press, the official publishing arm of the Unitarian Universalist Association, calls it 'the classic introductory text on Unitarian Universalism'"

 

Quoting from the link:

 

Each chapter of A Chosen Faith is about one of the sources from which UUs have drawn ethical and spiritual inspiration. And when it comes to traditional, mainstream religions like Judaism and Christianity, or even New Age "earth-centered" belief systems, [the authors] have nothing but praise and good things to say. But then there's the chapter on secular humanism. In it, the authors grudgingly recognize that atheism has a place in Unitarian Universalism, but they pound home a message about how dangerous it is, how we have to be sure not to rely on it too much, how we have to take extreme care to recognize its limitations. They call skepticism a "mercury pill": a useful medicine in small doses, a deadly poison if you take too much. [...]

And then there's this:

Looking at the religious aspects of many intergroup conflicts, at the violence carried out by zealots in the name of religion, some people conclude that the world would be safer "religion-free." They may even try living this way themselves. But too often they only practice a form of self-delusion. Nature abhors a vacuum and so does the human spirit. As C.S. Lewis said, the opposite of a belief in God is not a belief in nothing; it is a belief in anything. Sweep the demon of religion out the door and, like the story in the Gospels, you may only succeed in making room for an evil spirit worse than the first — this one accompanied by seven friends (Luke 11:24-26; Matt. 12:43-45). Zealous atheism can perform this role of demonic pseudoreligion.

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So, this is what the UU church thinks of you and the rest of us. Want to support them by attending services there? I wouldn't. You shouldn't either.

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Permalink Reply by Dennis Weaver on November 19, 2011 at 2:26pm

Thanks for passing this along, sir. I read all 3 of his posts about this. It moves the concept away from just sounding ridiculous ... to outright disturbing, for my daughter's sake.

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Permalink Reply by Nelson on November 19, 2011 at 2:31pm

No problem! Happy to help. "Disturbing" seems to be right the word. It's a shame there are as many atheists as there are that are a part of the UU church. I would really hope they would walk away if they found out what such a foundational book to the organization has to say about them and their non-belief.

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Permalink Reply by Dennis Weaver on November 19, 2011 at 3:54pm

Certainly. Even aside from that, which is more than enough itself, I couldn't really imagine going to one anyway. It sounds rather ridiculous as an atheist to want to go to some service that caters to all religions. It sounds 'fair' to some perhaps, but as I said, clumping a bunch of religious beliefs together isn't really moving in any real direction, when one surmises that they are all untrue. What's the point?

And for my daughter, what kind of idea it is of her mother's where this is any good for my daughter? They're de facto going to be against her conclusions. That scares me... she's only 11.

I'm curious what they do at their services, or if anyone on here has had experiences with them in general. Anyone?

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Permalink Reply by Nelson on November 19, 2011 at 4:17pm

I agree with you. To me it just gives cover to nonsense beliefs. Someone that stands up and says "I'm a member of the Unitarian Universalists" is standing up to say "Nonsense beliefs aren't an issue."

 

I'm not sure what they do at their services. Probably just lectures with a humanist feel. I would certainly think that nonbelievers would object to straight up sermons filled with overt references to god and faith and scripture.

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Permalink Reply by 3equ3cp1fsw0n on November 19, 2011 at 9:00pm

I went to a UU service once when I was a theist that had left Christianity. It had a church feel and was very boring. That's all I remember.

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Permalink Reply by Rocky Oliver (LotusGeek) on November 21, 2011 at 8:57am

OK, as a UU of many, many years, and an open atheist, here's my take.

 

First and foremost, there is NO statement of a deity, supernatural powers, etc. that is an official tenet of UU. In fact, we completely lack any "dogma", of any sort. Our only overreaching "belief", if you will, is that each person has to find their own answers about their "spirituality", or lack thereof - and they should have a place where they can discuss their ideas, openly and without fear of persecution, and in a respectful manner - and I have never encountered anything other than this, in the two UU congregations I have been in.

 

We all accept and support the "Seven Principles":

• The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
• Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
• Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
• A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
• The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
• The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
• Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

 

As far as the book mentioned below, "A Chosen Faith", remember that this is just one pastor's opinion of UU; I can tell you that the ministers I have encountered pretty emphatically disagree with this mindset. Remember, I said in another post that there are as many flavors of UU congregations as stars in the sky; this pastor is from one of the older churches that have a decidedly xian bent. My congregations did not.

 

And keep in mind that when you see "spirituality", it does not necessarily refer to some supernatural entity. I consider myself "spiritual", in that I try to be as good as I can, I try to live my life in a way that demonstrates atheists are "good people" too, I am involved in charitable causes, etc. To me, this is a part of me taking care of my "spirit" or who I am as a person. Sure, it's in my mind, there's no soul, but that's how I - and most UUs - define it.

 

Check out the national website - UUA.org - and really look around, read more than a couple of things, and see what you find. I also encourage you to read some sermons from my (now retired) local minister, Dr. Edward Frost. He was awesome, and even came out of retirement to marry my eldest daughter because he loves my family. I truly am in awe of him. I think you'll find that there are definitely UU congregations that speak more to "godless spirituality", being a better person, etc. than deities.

 

If you have more questions, please let me know.

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Permalink Reply by Diane on November 21, 2011 at 7:53pm

My experiences with the U.U. Church left me feeling very positively about it.  Although they do draw from different belief systems, including the Judeo-Christian one, they don't push anything.  I don't believe anyone ever even asked what I believe.  They were largely irreverent a good part of the time but still made me think about how I belong in the world and who I want to be.

Granted, I never got very involved.  I went to some services and some celebrations/ceremonies, and I liked them all.  Believe me, I don't like "church" - I can't stomach it.  I felt comfortable at the U.U. churches to which I went.

I took my daughters there to offset the damaging nonsense they were being exposed to at their father's house.  I wanted them to learn that not all churches are as radical as the Assembly of God ones to which they were being dragged against their will.  They are both atheists too, btw. even though I encouraged them to believe if they want to believe.  I think their father sealed the deal on that one.

I think it will be to your daughter's advantage to go to the church, actually.  She's bright, and she'll only get more food for thought.  

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