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Like I said in the first reply by Theists I am referring to fundamentalists. If you have ever debated with them you will realise that they have no desire to learn Science and if they do it is “bad science”. God is their answer to everything. If I don’t know something I make an effort to learn it. The fundies just insert god into the gap because he is the answer to everything. There was recently a case taken in the States by some of them who decided they should not have to pay health taxes because the believe god will heal them and they won’t ever ask for medical treatment.
It is because modern science if removing the case for a supernatural god that they are against scientists in general. Maybe I am wrong and they do embrace Evolution and respect scientists like Feynman, Dawkins or Hawkings. So for me I think it is pretty much a black and white issue. The idea of millions of them in one pot is interesting though. Lol. I, however, disbelieve what a huge number of humanity professes to be true.
how is your actions of switching science books with religion books in a bookstore any different than religious people attempting to force their opinions into the public domain?I do it for fun as I know some of the shop staff. Sometimes they tell me customers come up to the till in a indignant mood because they have found a book by “that Atheist Dawkins” beside the “I see Angels” or whatever. Maybe sometime somebody will buy Dan Dennett and not a book on healing crystals. If they never do I could not care less.
I think the main idea is that truth doesn't change. Therefor, a God who doesn't change represents the truth.
Facts are a form of truth. Math is a form of truth. But what about morality? If God's truth never changes, then shouldn't the morality he teaches also never change?
Well, if you believe the Bible, the morality God taught DID change . . . with Jesus (i.e. God incarnate). But truth is timeless . . . so God must have taught moral lies: either in the Old Testament or the New. Even God can't have it both ways. If Jesus (God) gave mankind a new covenant emphasizing love instead of law, then the morality of God's truth (or is it the truth of God's morality?) made a definite change.
Truth is more elusive than we like to admit. In a very real sense, we can't truly KNOW anything with certainty. Our entire experience is subjective. We interpret the world through sensory and neurological organs that limit our perception of reality to mere interpretative, abstract, constructs of it.
When it comes to morality, it's a GOOD thing that it adapts to human progress. For instance: there's no longer any justification for child brides in modern societies. On the other hand, a stagnant morality leads to closed minds and hostility with others who hold different notions of morality.
Christian apologetics have had 2000 years to develop. It's normally a waste of time to try to deconvert a Christian. But if and when you do try, I think that sticking to first principles is a good strategy. Is God perfect or not? Is God the truth or not? Do you believe the Bible or not? . . . Then point out how these basic premises are just not true. Anyway, that's my preferred tactic.
"Truth is more elusive than we like to admit. In a very real sense, we can't truly KNOW anything with certainty. Our entire experience is subjective. We interpret the world through sensory and neurological organs that limit our perception of reality to mere interpretative, abstract, constructs of it."
I agree. There is a different between belief and knowledge. Belief is a subjective assent to the truth of a proposition while Knowledge is a belief that has been justified based on objective experience. I don’t wish to go of on an Ayn Rand tangent about Truth and justifiable belief but I suppose reality is the way we look at the world and that forms our own truth.
I like your line about Stagnant Morality and what can ensue. I have often deconverted doubting Christians. I am just happy to see people thinking for themselves and getting on with life. I even have a spare room listed on a site for ex members of a well known cult if they ever need it.
I think the main idea is that truth doesn't change. Therefor, a God who doesn't change represents the truth.
Facts are a form of truth. Math is a form of truth. But what about morality? If God's truth never changes, then shouldn't the morality he teaches also never change?
Well, if you believe the Bible, the morality God taught DID change . . . with Jesus (i.e. God incarnate). But truth is timeless . . . so God must have taught moral lies: either in the Old Testament or the New. Even God can't have it both ways. If Jesus (God) gave mankind a new covenant emphasizing love instead of law, then the morality of God's truth (or is it the truth of God's morality?) made a definite change.
Truth is more elusive than we like to admit. In a very real sense, we can't truly KNOW anything with certainty. Our entire experience is subjective. We interpret the world through sensory and neurological organs that limit our perception of reality to mere interpretative, abstract, constructs of it.
When it comes to morality, it's a GOOD thing that it adapts to human progress. For instance: there's no longer any justification for child brides in modern societies. On the other hand, a stagnant morality leads to closed minds and hostility with others who hold different notions of morality.
Christian apologetics have had 2000 years to develop. It's normally a waste of time to try to deconvert a Christian. But if and when you do try, I think that sticking to first principles is a good strategy. Is God perfect or not? Is God the truth or not? Do you believe the Bible or not? . . . Then point out how these basic premises are just not true. Anyway, that's my preferred tactic.
Isn't it funny how theists with their absolutely egocentric religious beliefs, claim to be humble when it's scientists and atheists and the like who are comfortable saying, "I don't know"? Love it!
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