Trying to Reason with Fundies is Pointless... so... what can we do?

The more time that passes and the more books I read, the more I realize how dangerous the religious right is, and how pointless it is to try to reason with them. You might as well be trying to argue with a brick wall. 

The Christian Nationalist movement (also known as Dominionism - which both Bachmann and Perry appear to have some ties to) is a subset of the evangelical community that is highly mobilized, extremely efficient, well financed, and extremely dangerous.

For many who do not know much about them, they are often dismissed as quacks that have no influence, and those who raise the alarm about them are accused (even in the liberal community) of being "alarmist over-reactors."


However... this is one of the most dangerous things about the Christian Nationalist movement.... their chameleon ability to appear harmless and even beneficial. Make no mistake! Those of us who watch them like hawks are NOT alarmists! They are more powerful than most people know, and they often lack any sense of moral decency. They are willing to lie, cheat, threaten, bribe, and even occasionally murder to get their way. They will hide their true motives from the American public with deceptive language, that often they have one message for the public, and another for their own kind. 


Knowing how dangerous they are, I wish I knew what to do about them. They are determined to take over the country and forcibly subdue it to biblical law. They are raping and rending the Constitution on their way there. 


I have tried using logic, reasoning, and modern scholarship to make them see that what they are doing is wrong in more ways than one. But as I have learned, this is pointless. 

Atheists can debate all they want. We can write books or throw books at them. We can point out logical fallacies or laugh at them. We can make youtube videos or send letters. We can flash our degrees at them and demand they recognize that we know what we're talking about. 

There is no point to this at all.

Christian Nationalists live in their own parallel universe. And certain aspects of this "universe" make it quite obvious that there is nothing we can say that will convince them that they are wrong.


Michelle Goldberg lays out the immunity that the Christian Nationalist delusion has devastatingly clear in the book "Kingdom Coming."

1. Most of the "warriors for Christ" have been brainwashed from infancy to believe only what their cult tells them to believe. They are denied public education and herded into either homeschooling or special fundamentalist christian schools... where like any cult, they are cut off from the outside world, until their brainwashing is so thorough that there is no escaping it.

2. They are trained to believe that mainstream science and academics are part of a liberal agenda, corrupted by professors and scientists who push an anti-christian religion. They will therefore, refuse to believe any of modern scholarship no matter how stacked the evidence is against them. In fact, the more the evidence is against them, the more they believe that they are the only pious people, the holders of the real truth that is being suppressed by evil anti-christians. There is no way to get through to them... so don't even try.

3. You can't use liberal christians to convince them because they believe mainstream christians are deluded agents of satan.


Basically, nothing we can say will ever get through to them. 

However it is absolutely essential that we stop their drive to push christianity on the country by force. My question is... what are we supposed to do? They cannot be reasoned with. They are relentless and enraged. They are well financed and have many "friends in high places" within our government. 


What can we do to stop them before it is too late?

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Well.. I guess he did send us Greeks, Irish and Italians. Further natural disasters would be adding insult to injury.. ;)

Then what the hell did Japan do or New Zealand to have the WORST earthquakes? I ask this in jest, but also pose the question to religious folks who think its a sign from god. 


Never mind that (IMO) we cant be drilling holes galore in the ground for oil, natural gas and not expect some type of earth alteration.  Try drilling holes in a concrete or rock home foundation and see what happens.  Just my theory.

Don't feed the troll. Don't except any answers that make sense. Best just ignore him

Don't post replies that aren't applicable. 

Considering the topic on discussion, I think Steve's comment is bang on topic.

Especially when it's unfair to trolls. ;)

Asherah pole is also a synonym:

2 Kings 21 >>New International Version  

Manasseh King of Judah
1Manasseh was twelve years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem fifty-five years. His mother’s name was Hephzibah. 2He did evil in the eyes of the Lord, following the detestable practices of the nations the Lord had driven out before the Israelites. 3He rebuilt the high places his father Hezekiah had destroyed; he also erected altars to Baal and made an Asherah pole, as Ahab king of Israel had done. He bowed down to all the starry hosts and worshiped them. 4He built altars in the temple of the Lord, of which the Lord had said, “In Jerusalem I will put my Name.” 5In both courts of the temple of the Lord, he built altars to all the starry hosts. 6He sacrificed his own son ina the fire, practiced sorcery and divination, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the eyes of the Lord, provoking him to anger. 
7He took the carved Asherah pole he had made and put it in the temple, of which the Lord had said to David and to his son Solomon, “In this temple and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, I will put my Name forever. 8I will not again make the feet of the Israelites wander from the land I gave their forefathers, if only they will be careful to do everything I commanded them and will keep the whole Law that my servant Moses gave them.” 9But the people did not listen. Manasseh led them astray, so that they did more evil than the nations the Lord had destroyed before the Israelites.

Due to their short stature it would be very difficult to assemble a sufficiently large army of hobbits to make a proper advance on Sauron's stronghold or even Saruman's Isengard. The marching speed of hobbits is woefully inadequate for this purpose.


You want to hear ironic Michael, I live about 15 minutes driving time from the fundamentalist megachurch "Solid Rock Church" which had, for years, housed a really tacky 60 foot statue of Jesus, known locally as "Touchdown Jesus" - because Jesus had his hands extended up like he was signalling a football touchdown. Earlier this year, "Touchdown Jesus" was "smote" in a particularly violent thunderstorm, in which a lightning bolt struck the statue and the material [which was highly flammable] caught fire from the lightning strike, and Touchdown Jesus burned to the ground.

I thought the irony of that event was hysterical. God smote his son with a lightning bolt? OMG that's hillarious. lmao

Just another pagan symbol. the Zeus, European image of Christ bites the dust

@ Holland - I can handle any weirdos or fundies that call to my house. Won't even break a sweat. However if they happen to be two hippie chicks we will all be on our knees - and not the way the mormons do when they call - -lol.

My ex-wife became a born again evangelical.  She gave up a normal life for a fairy tale one.  I can't even talk to her for fear of being proselytized to death and I feel so sorry and sad for my two older boys.  Thank sanity they haven't fallen into her delusional way of life, yet !  As an atheist I really would like to say more to them and give them proof of the insanity of religion, but I fear turning them against me if I push too hard.  What makes fairly normal people become crazy, right-wing , religious thinking godlodytes?


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