Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by T A A on November 20, 2012 at 4:46pm

Of course, that has to be the lamest comeback I've ever read. I'm lifelong atheist, and have been dealing with Humanists proselytising and trying to convert me (along with Buddhists and Jehovash), I've done tons of readings on the dogma and I have a fundamental disrespect for it.

You asked about "thoughts and feelings", that's what I gave you. If you don't want diverse answers, why bother asking the question?
But I figured you'd be like that, oh well, one more tick on the dogma chart.

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Permalink Reply by Nate Lundgren on November 20, 2012 at 6:17pm

Diverse answers to the topic not obsessive fixation on religion and anti-religious sentiments is what I asked for. How is whining about "dogma" related to the topic of transhumanistic philosophy or ideas?

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Permalink Reply by T A A on November 20, 2012 at 7:31pm

Because you are blind to the dogmatism of both

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Permalink Reply by Nate Lundgren on November 20, 2012 at 8:32pm

Fine, I will put your opinions as firmly in the anti-transhumanist category. It is not how I feel but I'm no tyrant and I welcome your contributions. Maybe it will help others to consider the issues in greater depth. The truth usually falls somewhere in between the extremes so we are probably both blinded to some degree by our commitment to one side without looking at the full spectrum. I'm persuaded that both humanism and transhumanism are positive "dogmas" or whatever you may want to call them.

If you make strong enough arguments for an anti-humanist and anti-transhumanist positions, maybe I will change over to your way of thinking. Until then we can just try to be civil. I apologize if you have been hurt by any of my words or ideas.

I hope you are having a great life that is as you want it to be. If not, I hope transhumanism can help you with the problems that are stopping you from having a great life. :P hahaha  This is a free and open discussion and I do my best to keep a balanced outlook on any subject. I'm open for you to convince me with good logic, arguments and evidence so I can be more enlightened. Thanks.

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Permalink Reply by T A A on November 20, 2012 at 7:34pm

Free thinking is the very definition of my life, I live by no single book. I have been in the sciences a majority of my life, Life without indoctrination is a different kettle, I don't expect previous faithers to be able to give that up. Switching from one dogma to another is what most new atheist converts do. From the conversations I've had on several atheist sites, it takes decades to deprogram the dogmatic approach to life.

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Permalink Reply by Nate Lundgren on November 20, 2012 at 8:38pm

Please elaborate what you mean by dogmatic thinking. My mind is pretty open to considering the full spectrum of ideas that are available. Your assumptions about people with faith and those without seem to be fairly intolerant and misinformed. Science requires a very uncomfortable level of humility and I just don't see that in your perspectives. What sciences are you part of exactly?

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Permalink Reply by Pope OoO (Out of Order) on November 20, 2012 at 9:17pm

If you're saying that not all Transhumanists stick to a dogma, of course that's true. But just as in religiousity, I see the same, great potential for some Transhumanists to splinter off into dogmatic, cultic groups.

You might say "we've always had this kind of problem with humans", but then I'll say that we might someday be up against some pretty powerful, whacked out Transhumanists, not unlike 911 terrorists able to turn our own science and technology against us.

I do see a future in healing the sick, and otherwise enhancing human health and happiness. But (I think for now), a more efficient and humane process would be to focus on ourselves with more advanced social solutions (e.g. healthcare), and keep on researching genetics, epigenetics, stem cell therapy (which is as real-life human as one can get), and so on. And as we've seen in America, half of the population can't even apply good judgment on those imminent sciences and technologies, yet.

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Permalink Reply by Kris Feenstra on November 20, 2012 at 9:26pm

But just as in religiousity, I see the same, great potential for some Transhumanists to splinter off into dogmatic, cultic groups.

This is true for just about everything in life. Even anti-dogmatism could become a dogma in itself with some organization and prescription thrown into the mix. Frankly, I wouldn't be all that concerned here. The next brutal religious war is clearly going to be fought amongst the Trekkers.

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Permalink Reply by Pope OoO (Out of Order) on November 20, 2012 at 9:57pm

The next brutal religious war is clearly going to be fought amongst the Trekkers.

Haha, well, perhaps the Tribbles and Trekkers vs the Oligarchs & Technocrats. There is still hope. 

Permalink Reply by Nate Lundgren on November 20, 2012 at 10:00pm

Captain Picard for the win. :) 

Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on November 21, 2012 at 10:14pm

Permalink Reply by T A A on November 21, 2012 at 3:00am

I don't usually copy definitions off the internet, but this seems like an appropriate moment: Dogma is the official system of belief or doctrine held by a religion, or a particular group or organization.^[1] It serves as part of the primary basis of an ideology or belief system, and it can not be changed or discarded without affecting the very system's paradigm, or the ideology itself. Although it generally refers to religious beliefs that are accepted regardless of evidence, they can refer to acceptable opinions of philosophers or philosophical schools, public decrees, or issued decisions of political authorities.

The essence here to separate a mere individual opinion from a dogma is "cannot be changed without affecting the very system's paradigm. In this case the paradigm is "humans needs above all else". This is also the Christian dogma which has ruled society since 2k yrs. This made sense when Homo sapiens was in small numbers, in a state of equilibrium with the environment/biosphere. Had this conversation taken place 2000 years ago, it's quite likely I would have but my trust in this dogma of humans above all else. But this Christian dogma has been very successful at multiplying Homo sapiens at the cost of all else. Part of abandoning religious thinking and thinking with a scientific mind, is to abandon the "human above all else dogma". We've won. It's like a wrestling match where the winner keeps bashing on the dead body of his victim, til it's a pulp. Can we not move beyond this dogma and use our brains to strive for new objectives?

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