I'm talking about all religions and every religion in general. What are your reasons? 

Religion and religious persons impose their faith into public policy and politics. Where it clearly doesn't belong.

Religion is still very much mediatory in the schools of nations such as Republic of Ireland, where it has no place. Churches were built for a reason. This makes many members of other faiths and no faiths feel uncomfortable and excluded during a time when young persons find it difficult to fit in as it is. It isn't a matter of talking about religion, but actively telling young persons to practice it mandatory. 

Many nations make it difficult for the non-religous to have any sort of successful career in politics (and being honest about their lack of faith at the same time)

Many religious groups impose their views of abortion on others and seek to make abortion illegal. Because of religion in other nations it now is or has been for sometime, outlawed medial practice. Abortion is not murder, murder is the illegal killing of a human being, not a pre-human being. 

Religion demonises many educational fields in contrast with its doctrine, such as certain aspects of history and many accepted theories 

There have been cases in the United States and some other country where person's have lost their jobs due to lack of faith or alternative faiths and sometimes on the bases of sexual orientation (which is thought to be justified because of certain beliefs)

Religion tries to justify many forms of discrimination including but not limited to, homophobia, sexism, racism and class

Certain nations such as Iran and Uganda take their discrimination justified by religious beliefs a step further by improving atheists and murdering homosexuals

Religion has caused many to rebel against its corruption. While this mostly occurs in changing religions or declaring oneself atheist; that is not always the next direction for some. For some they take that faith and change it for their own purposes, often resulting in more extreme and harmful faith systems mostly regarded as cults. These cults involve all sorts of dangerous acts, such as mass suicide and sometimes violent attacks of non-beleivers of their faith. 

Religion has literally caused people to go to war due to the influence of the faith and disagreement with certain policies based on religious beliefs (especially when a doctrine influences such actions)

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Welcome back Proff

10. There are no atheist beliefs, so no

9. Schools are required to educate the facts, not supernatural beliefs. Want to know about faith? Churches are at your disposal.

8. Secular Democracy, not theocracy

7. When he or she is born and can independently survive without using up another persons biological resources.

6. No I don't. Your interpretation of your religion does not demonize religion.

5. Except that atheists don't have a doctrine influencing this behavior

4. Read the very first line of this thread again. I've been very clear. In my experience one persons interpretation of a religion is not a reflection of what the religion is. So no I'm not convinced of this.

3. No but you will find that the issue while under a democratic government is not just about democracy nor oil. There have been many democratic religious leaders such as President Bush .

2. That's just dishonesty, that's all I can say about that. The thing about science is that it is tested and proofed so many times that there is a standard of what is credible and what is not.

And intelligent design is superstition not science at all. People can claim it is if they want to try but they are wrong.

1. The inquisitions, the crusades to name just a few.

@Keith, RE: "7. When he or she is born and can independently survive without using up another persons biological resources." - so, are you saying a breast-fed baby isn't human?

@Strega, all this talk of babies making you hungry too?

This one would be my first choice --


Ha!  Indeed, Robert but I thought I'd wait til my birthday to celebrate properly *)

You are twisting my words or perhaps misunderstood my point.  When I say that one is not considered human until they can survive biologically on their own,  I am literally speaking of the survival without the use of the womb. 

Lets not forget that breastfeeding while most recommended by many doctors is not a total necessity, a baby can feed on formula.  But once a baby leaves a womb and can breath all by itself, it is human. From the moment it leaves the womb it is human. Before that it is a parasite. 

I neither twisted your words, nor misunderstood your point, you simply didn't present your point clearly.

I love children, especially my own, but trust me, they can qualify as parasites until they leave home, and sometimes, long after - how do you feel about post-natal abortion?

I don't support it as after 24 weeks the human brain has started at a crucial stage of development and well on its way to surviving on its own.  

A parasite is an organism living in another organism. A house last time I checked is not an organism.  While it is still technically a parasite after the 24 weeks, many functions of its body are surviving independently. So abortion in my opinion should not happen after 24 weeks and better if its actually before 20 weeks (the earlier the better). 

Just to clarify this is about the option of choice, its not about telling someone they should get an abortion.  Its not up to me or to you or anyone to tell a woman what do do with their own body. Its not our call. 

@Keith, thanks for the reply.  It's very difficult to continue a ten point conversation, and I really just wanted to offer some reflections.

Since you referred me back to the first line of the thread, I think the best reflection would be to state that making claims about "all religions and every religion in general" is probably no more rational than making claims about all people, or any group of people in general.

I think you should consider reading up a bit on the sociocultural origins of ideas.  All ideas to one extent or another are socially constructed in the language/beliefs/practices of communities.  There are atheist communities, and therefore ideas which arise out of those communities.  There are different scientific communities, and ideas which arise out of those.  The process of sorting out useful ideas from ones that are less useful is often complex.

You are welcome. 

I have done a lot of research on religion. Let me clarify something for you, for very short period of my life I abandoned the atheist position and was leaning towards deism for a short while. During that time I was in a state of confusion so I made it a point to analyse religion as a whole. 

According to your profile you are a Catholic, I was once a Catholic like you for about 18 years until I renounced it. The doctrine of the Catholic faith is of the same (more or less) as every other Christian, The Holy Bible. The bible is very clear from the start about what how everything came to be.  Says nothing about evolution. Because of that I have come across some Catholics, and a lot of other sects of Christianity who are very opposed to the idea that we came from lesser species.  Which is understandable if you are the type of person who believes the claims of the bible as that would go against the implication of man kind being superior (which we are not btw). 

Upon looking at religion very closely and just having conversations online with a lot of religious people not just here but other places too.  When you take all religions down to their raw basics, they really aren't that different from each other at all.  Granted some faiths have more fanatics that others (i.e. Christianity and Islam mainly). But all religions are about control.  One might argue that this control is a bad thing, I personally cannot agree that any type of mind control can ever be a good thing.  The mind needs to flow freely to really know our true views. That is my subjective opinion btw, feel free to disagree. 

So yes I am generalising all religions, and my generalisations may come across as irrational. But the thing is, religion isn't rational. 

@Keith, I'm sorry that during your time as a Catholic you had poor teachers.  Scripture is only one source of information that informs the Catholic faith, and we are not fundamentalist in our interpretation.  The pope himself in official teaching has endorsed evolution, and a robust, scientific explanation for the origins of the universe and the origins of species is perfectly compatible with the Catholic faith.

I'm also not quite sure how you arrived at the conclusion that religions are about control.  I think perhaps there is an extent to which religions of all sorts teach self-control.   Resisting temptation, not simply pursuing individual lusts or desire for power over others or money or whatnot.  I'm not sure that teaching self-control is a bad thing, are you? 

Governments seem to be more about control than religions.  Do you object to them as well?  That's real, call-out-the-police, throw-you-in-jail-at-gunpoint control, after all.   In many ways, Madison Avenue advertisers and PR firms are about control, or at least manipulation so as to profit from others.   Employers and the modern employment system is very much about control, especially with the decline of unions.  Do these things merit a top ten list as well in your mind?


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