"TomKat" (Tom Cruise & Katie Holmes) break up, probably over Scientology

Katie Holmes blindsided Tom Cruise with divorce papers in the last day or two, and many speculate that she wants to protect her daughter Siri from being dragged into Scientology.

Now, I always wondered what possessed her to marry into Scientology in the first place, but it's heartening that her duty as a mom has come ahead of being married to Cruise, which has undoubtedly been a boost to her own career.

I really don't get how anyone can take a religion seriously knowing it was invented by a sci-fi writer and has a theology involving space aliens. But, when you get right down to it, is it that much wackier than Christianity?

(My apologies to TA for posting in Small Talk, having been told to try to post in the more specific categories, but this does seem to be a Small Talk kind of item, though I'm willing to listen to any suggestions of a better category. Perhaps we need a category devoted to entertainment topics. If TA had one, I would have posted there.)

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I guess you ignore the nuances of English and go straight for the best way of misrepresenting what people say. I'll repeat what I've been saying one more time for you using different words in the hope you'll understand, which you probably don't want to do, but I'll try anyway.

I didn't say that Christianity doesn't practice shunning. I said it's doctrine of very few sects. Elsewhere in Christianity, if it's practiced at all, it's practiced by people ignoring their sect's dogma. A Christian acting consonantly with doctrine in most sects will try to bring the defector back into the fold. After all, Christianity is evangelical.

Some people who may have seen or experienced some Christian shunning,  but haven't studied Christianity academically may think that it's an almost universal practice. It isn't. And when it does happen, it's probably contrary to what their sect would want them to do.

Is that simple enough for you?

And I didn't say that Christianity practiced shunning, I said that Christians shun - you really have to read each word in a sentence, in the order in which it was written, for it to make any sense - try it, you'll like it!

Here's another link that the literate among us may wish to read:


Well, then you misspoke, because "Christians shun," taken as it sounded, as a broad generality, is incorrect. More correct: "A FEW Christians shun, even though their real role as evangelists isn't to drive people away but to get them into the flock."

No, I didn't misspeak - in saying, "Christians shun," one need only ask, 1) are they Christians? 2) do they shun? If the answer to both is yes, then Christians shun.

Then we come to your offering: "A FEW Christians shun" - then we wrangle for a page or two on definitions of "A FEW" - no thanks.

I could not have put it better.Look up the inquisition on line, it speaks for itself. Religion has always been an excuse for evil people to do evil things. How many more years will it take for the stranglehold of religions to be broken.

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-- Blaise Pascal --

"You do not need the bible to justify love, but no better tool has been invented to justify hate."
-- Richard A. Weatherwax --

"More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason."
-- George Carlin --

Elaine, the Inquisition was almost a millennium ago. It's time to let that dog sleep. A lot of good is done in the name of Christianity in addition to whatever harm they may do. Hospitals, feeding and clothing the poor, etc. They are a mixed bag in that regard.

Our main problem with them needs to be the falsehood of their theology.

Shunning, when practiced, is contrary to church doctrine except in a few sects. More often, it's an emotional reaction undertaken within a family without church sanction.

There are limitations to what constitutes a no true Scotsman fallacy.  No true cat is a dog.

Having read some of the Dianetics source materals, about the same time I was looking into our local Bagwan, it was really hard to think how anyone could ever join Scientology. They tried to be 'scientific', a test device(simple conductivity meter), a structured ideology, but a heavy dose of imagination from a science fiction writer? Sadly I was an avide SF reader also at the time, and still, but making sh-t up just so you have something to believe, then trying to sell it to someone else, making money off it, and then building a church? If they had stopped at the SF part, it could have been a great space/SF opera! 

My first experience with a scientology member was in Portland. I was walking around down town and was stopped by a cute gal. She asked me some questions, and in a few moments she had personal info., then I woke up and told her to bugger off! Latter I realized that this is a training for young recruits, with the background assertion that 'normal' people are robots!

Latter I walked into the local scientology office to look at their 'personality test'. Looking at the test I realized that it was very simular to the MMPI, given to folks with personality disorders (I was a two year psychology major at the time). They where trying to dig deep, maybe to find your buttons? If you are soft minded, trusting, with lots of money, they want you!?

They are looking for damaged people looking for something to give them some meaning, companionship, and a sense of belonging. When they ask you questions about yourself, they are looking for vulnerabilities to exploit.

RE: "They are looking for damaged people"

I'm surprised they haven't been in touch with you - you could be their poster boy --

They HAVE been in touch with me. Years ago, applying for a job, my interviewer asked me to fill out a personality questionnaire which I recognized immediately as a questionnaire handed out on the street by Scientology recruiters.

But sorry, not a poster boy because undamaged.


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