Thou shalt not steal ... except for shoplifting.
Rev Tim Jones, an Anglican priest in the UK, stated that people should turn to shoplifting if they were having trouble making ends meet, rather than burglary or prostitution.
As might be imagined, he's taking a lot of flak over his sermon, from the police, the government, the church, and most everyone else.
The piece does not report his full sermon, but here's a part:
'My advice, as a Christian priest, is to shoplift,' he told his stunned congregation at St Lawrence and St Hilda in York.
'I do not offer such advice because I think that stealing is a good thing, or because I think it is harmless, for it is neither.
'I would ask that they do not steal from small family businesses, but from large national businesses, knowing that the costs are ultimately passed on to the rest of us in the form of higher prices.
'I would ask them not to take any more than they need. I offer the advice with a heavy heart. Let my words not be misrepresented as a simplistic call for people to shoplift.
As might be imagined, he's taking a lot of flak over his sermon, from the police, the government, the church, and most everyone else.
The piece does not report his full sermon, but here's a part:
'My advice, as a Christian priest, is to shoplift,' he told his stunned congregation at St Lawrence and St Hilda in York.
'I do not offer such advice because I think that stealing is a good thing, or because I think it is harmless, for it is neither.
'I would ask that they do not steal from small family businesses, but from large national businesses, knowing that the costs are ultimately passed on to the rest of us in the form of higher prices.
'I would ask them not to take any more than they need. I offer the advice with a heavy heart. Let my words not be misrepresented as a simplistic call for people to shoplift.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Dave G on -
And that stealing in order to survive is okay. Specifically, 'that it is permissible for those who are in desperate situations to take food that they might not starve'
I don't disagree with this. Between starvation and shoplifting, the latter is certainly the lesser of two evils. It ought to be a final resort, after legal methods to obtain sustenance have failed, but I could not condemn someone for stealing to feed themselves or their children in such a circumstance.
Hell, I would (and have) bought them a meal.
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Permalink Reply by Joshua McGee on -
Could people be sure to read the sermon before commenting?
Setting aside the landmine of the prostitution issue for a moment, this is a bad idea -- why, exactly? When Voltaire and Victor Hugo lament the church's lack of distinction between theft-for-survival and moral transgression, they get lauded by atheists and freethinkers.
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Permalink Reply by Joshua McGee on
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I'm actually getting more upset by this as I think about it. If we're to have any moral integrity, we have to be at least as critical of atheist arguments as theistic arguments, and at least as receptive to good ideas from theists as we are to those of atheists. Snark can never replace reason -- otherwise we're just asses (though, granted, cool talking asses like-in-the-Bible.)
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Permalink Reply by Joshua McGee on
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Sure. In Les Misérables, Jean Valjean is used as a literary foil for the moral legitimacy of the entire French revolution. Imprisoned for stealing bread -- which is basically what we're talking about here -- Hugo shows the lack of legitimacy for oligarchical and religious society. Hugo (I think justly) is lauded for making his hero someone who stole food to survive, and the lauding is traditionally by social liberals and secularists.
Or am I missing something? I think the point's valid (?).
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Permalink Reply by Joshua McGee on
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Did not Hugo also show Jean Valjean as the Jesus figure that could forgive his nemisis for his sufferings?
There's a strong perpetuation-of-Grace (big G) theme, sure, but I don't see that they're incompatible -- it's not just Jesus who can forgive his enemies, right?
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Permalink Reply by Joshua McGee on
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So, Hugo could suggest that both big-G Grace and populism are superior to the in-place values, which ... kind of takes us full-circle back to a priest advocating the justness of theft in this instance. After all, it was the priest's forgiveness that (well, ultimately) inspires the reform.
Also, I would strongly favor this Anglican's morals to the kind of "Nobility of Suffering" ideas implied by, say, Mother Theresa.
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Permalink Reply by elaine kilshaw on -
Jesus is not alive today but if he was he could feed all these poor people by sending bread from the heavens surely or parting the waters so the starving can find a place where food is plentiful.But as he has decided not to return to help the poor, saving children from abuse of priests, one must do what one has to do. If my children were starving I would do anything to help them but would not bother to pray.
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Permalink Reply by Joshua McGee on
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... and the Voltaire is from the first section of Candide -- the scene with the bishop.
Did you maybe read my argument backwards?
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Permalink Reply by Michel-san on -
I bet he still did a collection for church...
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