In my point of view: If homosexuality is a sin to christianity, and since it's not a choice and inborn, like science proves, can't this disprove god? Maybe not even prove, just for christians.

On a side note: (for christians, if they bother)
If christians are born sinners, according to the bible, then why the fuck are they trying to be so righteous. I say you'd be better off committing suicide, in my logic.
And who's to say suicide is a bigger sin than the others if there is none, so if you die, at any time, you can't repent anymore anyways and besides, you cant repent for every single sin in your life by that time.....

so your smart ass is goin to hell too then riiight?
fuck your jesus

there's my rant :)

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Christians will probably tell you that this doesn't disproof god but that god has so much trust in those people that he can make them homosexual and be still sure that their faith is strong enough so they obey the bible even against their instincts... ;-)
You see, you can always bend Christian (or generally religious) logic to turn a disproof into a positive message...
Just another example of how "flexible" logic of faith can be:
I recently had a discussion with a girl who didn't believe in god but in a duality of physical beings and some kind of energy, that is passed back to the universe when a being dies. According to her there's a scientific study that proofs that... yeah, right, sure... (she couldn't recall a link to that study and asked me to disprove her claim...^^)
But the best bending-over in my view was her claim that she didn't have to prove her claim because this was the TRUTH that she had found FOR HERSELF. Needless to say that she didn't want to listen to my argument that we all live in the same physical reality and that there isn't a "personal truth" which can be different from the truth about reality.
Discussing faith can be really frustrating, seeing all those people denying to accept reality as it is...
(btw. we're both germans - over here it's not as extreme as in the US, but still difficult.)
oh? i'm polish 100%
When I was an apologist, I would've brushed that off easily with "God is not the only force acting in this world. Homosexuality may be something you're born with, but it is Satan who causes this, for the Bible tells us that God gave Satan dominion over the Earth until the day of Judgment. It is a homosexuals' job to remain chaste and honor Jesus by denying the sinful nature of the curse placed upon them by Satan" etc, etc. Plus there's all that "believe in Jesus and he'll cure your gayness" bullshit.

You have underestimated the level of crazy you're dealing with, good sir :)
YOU were an apologist?!?!?!
I share Reggie's surprise.
I was going to mention this same argument which I've come across so many times before when discussing religion with believers. Since you've said it nicely, I'm just gonna second it..

I would love to know, however, what is YOUR reply (now) to your own argument (back then).. I, myself, would respond to such argument by asking "How do you justify the existence of Satan in the first place. In other words, why create an evil force on earth? Is it simply to make things interesting for God?"
exactly. it's a contradiction. i think religious people, when i once was, looked at satan as if it was just the opposite end of the spectrum. the whole opposite thing, good, bad, up, down, etc. now i look at it totally different, there's good and evil but nobody's causing this but the individual..
Although there have been some scientific studies showing certain similarities between gay men, no concrete scientific proof has been made that differentiates gay people. I think of sexuality like handedness anyway, some people are left handed, some are right handed; As a gay man, I'm sure with enough Mormon-style electroshock therapy someone could make me vomit every time I think of a man (think Clockwork Orange), but that'll never make me straight; I hope that no "gay gene" is ever found, for you can bet there will be plenty of fundies chomping at the bit to modify this gene to "cure" gay people. sorry to get off topic, I tend to do that, just saying I don't think this would be the best argument to disprove god, but it's a good point Esther, I think god can be disproved in
well i wasn't being totally official with this as my only argument, it's just one i haven't come across and thought i'd share. however, to be totally honest, i personally think there is a gay gene. i'm interested in the whole study of genes and hope they find more information about genetics. i think there's a gene for nearly everything, but i also think that a person's mind can control a gene, but that's just me for now ...
"Curing" gay people has been going on for so long and fundies are not waiting for a "gay gene" to begin their "transformation" campains. In fact, your comment reminded me of the case of Alan Turing (the father of Artificial Intelligence", in the 1950's, who faced criminial charges in England for being a homosexual and was given the choice of either going to jail or receiving female hormones treatment. Turing chose the second option. In 1954, he commited suicide and many believe it was linked to this issue.
well it may be so.


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