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Permalink Reply by Marc Poulin on June 15, 2012 at 8:53am

Welcome aboard!

That's a tough call, either you lie to her or you lie to yourself. I personally don't think I could keep up the charade for the rest of my life/marriage. If I were you I would seriously dig deep down and examine your beliefs or lack thereof and determine where you stand, then stand firm by them. Leave the decision up to her. If your friends are only friends with you because of a shared belief in God, they are not great friends.

BTW your wife wasn't born religious, she was brainwashed like the rest of them

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Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on June 27, 2012 at 2:45am

I think I stand with you here, Marc - although having children would make it a very tough call.

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Anthony on June 15, 2012 at 11:42am

I'd tolerate an awful lot for the sake of my son.

I think you should ensure that your relationship with your sons is solid, loving and full of trust before you get too public with your feelings about the church. People lose people when they come out as non-christian, it's not fair but it happens. If I was in your shoes, I'd keep my head down and shore up those relationships you want to keep before making drastic public moves. Because you can be sure that a church like that will back up your wife to block you out of their lives if they think you're not one of them. And then they'll be giving your boys religious guidance instead of you.

I don't have personal experience with this kind of thing, but others do. Maybe they'll chime in here with guidance for you, I hope they do. 

Don't get me wrong, I really wish everyone who feels religion is misguided could come out and say it with confidence, and if they can, I think they should. But sometimes the timing isn't right, and sometimes you need to put on a shit-eating grin for a year or two until you're ready to fight for your kids. 

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Permalink Reply by Jay on June 28, 2012 at 10:07am

Kevin, you have some key wisdom here!  

I've been an atheist for ever.  I'm 46.  But I've had to politely nod when friends throughout life go on about the mystery of their god.  But because of the last few years with atheists speaking out, and sites like this permitting connection with others going through this, I've come out on FaceBook.  Some "friends" announced they will un-friend me because we don't "believe" the same way.  I knew I would lose "friends" coming out.  But if can't talk about anything more meaningful than the latest sports scores, because of the manufactured barrier of delusion, what are you saving?  Would you and I trade 10 deluded quaintness for 1 friend who would never try to  will unfounded assertions into existence?

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Permalink Reply by Stutz on June 16, 2012 at 2:04am

As I read through your post, I initially was thinking: "don't judge Christianity by how comfortable it makes you, how annoying some practices are, or how inadequate your devotion is -- the only relevant issue is whether you think it's actually true or false." You know, because if it's true, none of that matters, you'd just better stick with it unless you want to burn for eternity. And if it's false, none of that matters because the whole thing is unfounded anyway. So decide which it is, and stand up and be true to yourself.

But then I got to the part where you've cheated on your spouse and could maybe lose your family if you come out as an atheist. So that's an even more important matter as far as I'm concerned, and the atheism thing seems fairly minor until your situation with your boys stabilizes. I don't have anything to offer you there. I stand by my advice about your Christianity, but that matter can wait.

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Permalink Reply by Richard Purves on June 17, 2012 at 3:54am

Thanks all, I should perhaps mention that my boys are still relatively young at 5yrs and 11 months old. In the last few days I have come to the conclusion that I have to be upfront and honest about my 'awakening' as what makes a lie about my belief any less significant than the lies about cheating, given how important her faith is to her? The stone cold part of me just thinks to hell with it (excuse the pun) and if she cannot bear to be with me after this then so be it, we deal with the fallout for the sake of the kids, but despite that I have been with her for 10 years and we have a great deal of history, Id liked to spare her further pain...

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on June 27, 2012 at 10:27am

First Richard, you're never clear on your "string of indiscrections" - one could easily assume you meant sexual affairs, but I noticed that in a post on the next page, you denied that they were. So before I could offer any advice, I'd have to know more.

One thing you need to ask yourSELF, is whatever the "string of indiscrections" were, why did they happen? What (besides religion) is wrong with your marriage? What (besides the children) is right about it? In short, with both religion and the boys out of the picture, what do you have? And be honest with yourself --

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Permalink Reply by Rachel on June 17, 2012 at 2:37pm

I have no advice, I'm afraid. I can't say I've ever really been in a situation like yours. But I did want to say that my heart goes out to you. I have some small idea of how this must be feeling for you, but can never truly know it. I am so sorry that you're going through this!

It's a horrible thing when faith will blind someone against the love they have for someone else as a human being and not as a "believer". It's as if they find it impossible to look past a lack of faith in what THEY believe to see the love, the personality, and the actual person behind that particular screen. I am always sad when someone will leave another, lover or friend, because they've discovered the other doesn't believe in their god...

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Permalink Reply by Diane on June 18, 2012 at 8:49pm

That's quite a tough situation you're in there.  I want to say the I think you should live what is true for you, but I know it is not that cut and dry. I would tend to do what I think would hurt or damage the kids less, and what, at the end of the day, I could live with.

It sounds like you are in the process of accepting your de-conversion process.  I hate it that this is such a big deal.  I don't see this as something we necessarily have control over - whether we believe or not.  I think we can fake things like that for a while, but in the end we can't be where we are not at.  It doesn't seem like you can be the way you were even if you try to force it.  

I know it is poor consolation, but welcome back from your long excursion along the path of Christianity.  

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Permalink Reply by Jaret on June 25, 2012 at 9:35pm

I am interested to know how this turns out (not to turn you into a science experiment or anything) because my cousin is getting close to seeing the fallacy of it all and him and his wife and children are all deeply involved in the church and I feel he would never be able to reject christianity because of this and he will continue to live a lie even after he realizes it is fake. 

Unfortunately, your marriage may be in jeopardy. Do not take it upon yourself as a choice. Give the choice to her. Talk it out with your wife. If you have a good marriage the two of you should be able to talk about your beliefs together and come to a similar conclusion. If you cannot do this with religion, chances are that you cannot in other areas as well and your marriage is doomed to fail anyway, in my opinion. 

She has just as much responsibility to accept your religion (or lack there of) as you do hers. Meet in the middle. Say she can have her church and you can have your atheism. My parents get along just fine like this. My mother is devout and my father is an agnostic/atheist. If she cannot accept this, it is not your problem, it is hers. You are compromising, she is not. You are not at fault at all for this. 

What kind of person would you be if you left her because she wouldn't play the happy atheist against her beliefs? Therefore what kind of person is she if she will leave you if you do not play the happy christian against yours? 

Also, point out that what the Bible says if needed. 1 Corinthians 7: 12-16

12Now, I will speak to the rest of you, though I do not have a direct command from the Lord. If a Christian man^c has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to continue living with him, he must not leave her. 13And if a Christian woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to continue living with her, she must not leave him. 14For the Christian wife brings holiness to her marriage, and the Christian husband^d brings holiness to his marriage. Otherwise, your children would not be holy, but now they are holy. 15(But if the husband or wife who isn’t a believer insists on leaving, let them go. In such cases the Christian husband or wife^e is no longer bound to the other, for God has called you^f to live in peace.) 16Don’t you wives realize that your husbands might be saved because of you? And don’t you husbands realize that your wives might be saved because of you?

According to her beliefs, she cannot leave you unless you choose to leave. 

 

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Permalink Reply by Jaret on June 26, 2012 at 11:43am

I am curious what the counseling is for? Is it problems in your marriage? Have they been there long?

I do not envy your position. You can only listen to that spiritual voodoo so much before you cant stand it anymore. I think if you try to stay you will have a hard time. When I left Christianity, at first it was only the super weird things that pissed me off. (speaking in tongues, prophecy, etc). Then, as I became less and less jaded to Christianity, even prayer started to piss me off. Every time people say they will pray for someone else to help them I think, "Get off your lazy self righteous ass and actually do something about it!".  Or when they say "Everything happens for a reason. It is Gods plan". Sometimes that reason is because you made bad decisions in your life. 

What I am getting at is, right now you are coming from being pretty active in the church, which I was too. You are still jaded but you have opened Pandora's box now and it is going to get worse. A lot worse. The big lie will continue to unfold and you will begin to see people for who they are. Lost sheep, wolves preying on the weak, greedy people using false hope to steal others money. I cannot even step foot in a church anymore because I get so angry about what is going on there.

I don't see how you could put up with that long.  If you love your wife and she can accept your beliefs and not try to push hers on you, then that is great. But if she is going to look at you as evil and try to shove religion down your throat, I say leave. It has to be better for your kids than seeing this huge religious battle every day.

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on June 27, 2012 at 11:19am

Why didn't you comply with the counselor's request? It couldn't have hurt you, and it would have demonstrated to your wife that you were at least interested in trying to meet her halfway. Now you can rightfully be accused of not even trying - you have to understand that her beliefs, though likely born of fear, are very real to her - if you really want to save your marriage, you should at least acknowledge that, no matter how ridiculous they may seem to you. You've heard, "You are what you eat?" - sometimes, you are what you believe, and your rejection of her effort at counseling, is in effect a rejection of both her and your marriage.

I'm not suggesting that you concoct a story to appear to believe, be honest, but at least go through the process. You might also consider choosing a secular counselor.

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