Just to find out what others think that may not know ...

 

When I came to this website I was excited to read everyone's point of view - serious and not-so-serious.

 

However, recently part of the discussion on one of the topics left a bad taste in my mouth and I'm not sure I want to come back.

 

Free speak and all that ... but closed minds and racism?

 

http://www.thinkatheist.com/forum/topics/what-if-your-partner-wante...

 

Yes it was an 'odd' discussion but am I the only one who thinks like I do?

 

Hopefully NOT.

Tags: -, Closed, and, casual, hope, minds, not!, racism

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I didn't participate in that discussion at the time, Nancy, but I did just go back and reread the entire thread.

I think I can see where you're coming from but I also think that you over-reacted to what Ava was saying. For the record I am not going to publicly agree with either position (yet).

I was wondering though if perhaps you'd be willing to share exactly how you personally define racism?

Also if I said I think redheads are more attractive than other hair colors - should that be taken as offensive to women who do not have red heair. Should it be taken as offensive by members of races in which redheads do not naturally occur?

I do not ask to mock or challenge. I merely wish to get to the root of your objection.

Peace.
Also: Would you consider me to be sexist if I said that having a beard is a non-negotiable trait when it comes to me finding a person sexually attractive?
Also: Would you consider me to be sexist if I said that having a beard is a non-negotiable trait when it comes to me finding a person sexually attractive?

Not at all. If you know that you do not find beards attractive, then that is not sexist. My wife prefers I shave on a regular basis. Is she oppressing my maleness? Of course not.

The person in question stated her preferences and used other traits as an example during a discussion on whether it was wrong to leave a partner who received a sex change.

Now, there are two definitions of racism according to Merriam's:

1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2: racial prejudice or discrimination

You can very easily make the case that she was being racist based on the second definition. She IS discriminating based n race. But what is she denying another race? A job? Freedom to vote? Equal rights? No, nothing like that. She is denying them the right to be in an intimate relationship with her. But no one has have a right to that. This is a personal preference and not one that I think falls under the "OMG! That is so racist!" banner you have been waving over it. I don't believe she was being disrespectful or hateful and her even mentioning it was completely relevant to the topic at hand.

We have laws against racism and prejudice at practice in the public sphere here in the United States. Those laws are there to protect against actual racism. This form of prejudice is mere personal preference over mates and there is nothing wrong with it (even if you don't like it and prefer she date men of every race, creed, and color) and there was nothing wrong with her stating her preference based in the context of the topic discussion or in the manner that she stated it.
I second that. I don't think beards are attractive on men let alone women! Hahaha! I make my mister shave before we cuddle.
Facial stubble and beards are deal-breakers for my male dating too!

I recently got lasered at a clinic where most clients were gay and the clients and clerk were sooooooooooo beautiful. I gave referral discounts to all the guys I know! After years of female body objectification, men are finally feeling the beauty pressure and getting their act together! Men, not only gay men, are not only getting back/ear/nose hairs removed but also facial hair, what a wonderful idea. Ah to kiss a man with no stuble, no skin chaffing, no stubble all over the bathroom sink every morning! I would make love to that man 24 hours a day!
24 hours a day!?! Could I have the address for that laser clinic?
Federal and Sunrise, Fort Lauderdale, FL :)
Why would you leave the site over one person's opinion? Part of what this community is about is diversity, and that includes diversity of preference. If you are okay with men who prefer women, and men who prefer men (etc), then you should be okay with someone who has a preference based on other physical attributes. It's ridiculous to expect a human to be attracted to all traits of another human. Her preference happens to be based on skin color, but she is not saying there is anything inherently wrong with or inferior or about black people.

I don't understand how you don't see that gender preference, age preference, height preference, hair-color preference, body-type preference all fall under the same category that skin-color preference falls under. If you think Ava is out of line, then so are heterosexuals and homosexuals. Are homosexuals sexist because they are not attracted to the opposite sex? I would say not! Most homosexual males have lots of female friends, but they are not sexually attracted to them.

Whether or not you agree with Ava is beside the point. She has a right to express her preference. If she were insulting black people, or expressing contempt for them, then that would be grounds to accuse her of racism. In that case, we would confront her and advise that she stop being hateful. But she never did anything of the sort.
How a person handles race matters differs from area to area and generation to generation. My teen years were in the late 80's and early 90's. The tip toeing around racial matters was ridiculous and the intention of being polite furthered the racism as we continued to treat each other as different. Sensitivities were often on edge and you couldn't have productive conversations without offending someone. Open conversations without hate and fear have gotten us to a point where we have a black president in the US and as a teen, there were songs about how that would never happen. It seemed impossible. Silencing opinions out of fear would only take us backwards and gives one groups power over the other. If a woman said that I prefer cocoa colored skin to my Olive skin, I would not take offense.
Thanks for that! All of this being said, I don't like milky white skin either. I really love olive colored skin like my fiance's. But I can still negotiate with pale skin, although I might ask them to go out in the sun if they look like a ghost. :)
"Racism" involves vicious bigotry with the intent to harm an individual solely on the basis of race. Admitting to a lack of sexual response in the presence of certain physical characteristics is NOT the same thing.

Ava left you a thorough reply explaining her comments in that thread. Instead of actually engaging her in that thread, you dismissed her entire position by stating that you are "too old for this shit." Basically, you categorized her reasoned explication as shit.

I'm extremely confused as to how you can be so easily offended by someone expressing a lack of attraction to a set of physical characteristics, yet find it appropriate to directly label a person's reasoned position as shit.
Prejudice is a fact of life. EVERYBODY is prejudiced.

Take, for instance, ex-convicts. They've served their time and have re-entered society. Would you let one run your cash register? How about date your daughter?

Prejudice is a generalization. A shortcut for experience. We often make judgments without the benefit of experience. It's not necessarily racial. But let's take a look at racial discrimination. Being openly racist is a sign of insecurity and ignorance. Is racism, therefor, somebody's fault? Or is it simply a matter of experience and maturity?

I think racism is fostered by ignorance. If people of different races mixed more, we would have less prejudice. We would see that we're all human. In the end, there will always be some racism -- because there will always be insecure people who use differences to separate us.

Mixed marriages are more common than they used to be. But it's still less than typical. Many people who see themselves as progressive would balk at their daughter or son marrying somebody of a radically different race. Some of this is religiously based . . . particularly if you're Mormon. But mostly, it's just plain, simple, prejudice. It's more common than we like to admit.

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