The ties that b(l)ind part 2

So recently there was an email sent out (by my father, to the rest of the family) and it was basically saying that all Democrats hate god and blah blah blah, nation dying blah blah blah, here are some bible verses. After some intense discussion where most of my family shat on my beliefs and called me stupid, I started a discussion with my father asking him to not include me on these types of emails in the future. He then said that I need to change my ways and I emailed him back instances where religion has failed and should not be involved in government. This was his response:

>Hi Hon. Well, my question would be when did I ever “force” my beliefs on you? You may have been required to go to church when you were under our roof, but you were never forced to pray for Christ to be your Savior. You were told what the Scriptures said and then given the opportunity on your own free-will to either accept or reject that. Salvation is a choice, not a forced belief. No one has come into your home and dragged you off to church against your will. I don’t call you up and yell at you for not going to church. I may not agree with your choice, but I won’t force you into going. I can recall you kids asking me “Am I saved?”. I can’t answer that because it is up to you to come to Christ on your own. I must chide you though on your statement that if you were to see God you would tell Him just how much you disagree with Him concerning His stand on homosexuality. Once again, please create for me anything from absolutely nothing with just using your voice. The day that you can call into existence a world, then I may think you might have some ability to govern the universe. Until then, my idea will be that you are far less than God and since He knows what is good and evil I will obey what He says is right. I am not a Calvinist who believes that God controls the lives of all individuals. He did give you a free-will. Along with that free-will is a guide for living your life in a way that will be blessed. You will make the choice on how to live it. You will be responsible in answering to Him how well you listened.

You seem to think that a nation based on religion must be bad. You cite the Middle Eastern countries. Let’s take a look at countries based on non-religion such as China or Communist Russia. While they may trumpet a woman’s equality, in practicality it just isn’t true. Countries such as that restrict you even more so and keep a closer eye on you than you would have found in your life. I admit that our government is not the same as what I grew up in, but that is because they are becoming more socialistic and communistic with each passing election. The nation is turning away from its freedoms and demanding that the government run their lives. What is wanted is a government that will oversee everything and punish those who have worked and become successful. So, what trend will you be voting into office? Amanda, I have only been alive for 57 years, but I can tell you that the moral slide and subsequent degeneration that I see in America is shocking. We will not survive as an influential nation for many more decades. Probably by the time you are my age this country, if still in existence, will be a non-factor in the world. It is what the people are going to vote into office. You say that if the people demand a new social norm then shouldn’t that country comply. It is, and it will not turn out well. You grew up in a country based on religion. You were given an education. You were encouraged to be the best you could be. You were not denied anything that would make you a better person. So, what is your argument? It doesn’t have a leg to stand on. You can point to other countries as to just what is wrong with them, but you cannot point to the privileges that were given to you and demand a religious free government. It is because this nation was founded on the beliefs in the Bible and the God of that Bible that you have what you have.

Concerning the Pledge of Allegiance. The words "under God" were added in 1954 by then President Eisenhower, who stated at the time, "In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war." This change came from a president who went to war to fight for our freedoms. The world threat at that time was communism, and as they state in their manifesto they do not believe in God and want nothing religious in their form of government. Interesting to see how far America has moved from its heritage and is running towards a communistic and socialist form of government. What form of government will you be voting into office?

You say that if I can accept your beliefs and if I don’t push my beliefs on you then we will get along just fine. I wish you could hear your statement as I hear it. I couldn’t think of a more disrespectful thing to say to my Dad. While my Father was not a Christian, and his ways were so completely different from God’s, I knew that my goal in life was to honor him. I did that because God said “Honor your father and mother that your days may be long upon the earth”. I did to his dying day. If you want to know how much I love my Dad and respect him just ask me and I will gladly tell you. I pray your children will never speak to you in that way. You don’t understand that right now and you may never understand it. I don’t agree with your beliefs, but I have not and will not push my beliefs on you. However, I will not be silent when I see you headed towards what I know will not end well. My daughter, I love you.

I'm....without words about this and since I've been wanting to share this situation for a while I decided to share the end of the discussion. So thoughts? I'm sad that I hurt his feelings but honestly I feel like if he can't see how he is pushing his religion on me every time he sends me an email with a bible verse in it or calls my actions/beliefs amoral, then he deserves it. Am I a horrible person? (Please answer honestly...also would it help if I posted what I wrote to him?)

Obviously, they don't know I'm an atheist.

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Permalink Reply by James Cox on November 1, 2012 at 11:33pm

Man that was a painful, heartfelt, in-your-face, statement!

I have often felt this way, and have more than once cut someone off access to me. It still feels very rough and inflexible.

Just a little like the other party...;p(.

I do have to say that peace can be very under rated.

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Permalink Reply by Nate Lundgren on November 2, 2012 at 8:03am

Thanks, Archaeopteryx, I'm still a noob at figuring out this websites controls. :)

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Permalink Reply by Amanda Mrakovich on November 1, 2012 at 6:53pm

Thanks for the video! It is great!

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Permalink Reply by Nate Lundgren on November 2, 2012 at 8:00am

I do enjoy videos made by the ThinkingAtheist because he grew up in a similar area of America as me so I can relate to many things he says and how he says them. There are universally applicable messages that he talks about as well. He became an atheist during and over about the same time frame as I did so I understand the evolution of thoughts and feelings that he does a good job of expressing because he went through them a few years before me. It takes a fair amount of time to process the huge shift in worldview and self-perception that happens when we realize that we cannot and do not believe in any deities or the stories associated with them.

I'm glad there are beacons in the night, so to speak, like the ThinkingAtheist and the many other thought provoking atheists on YouTube and other websites. They have helped me a lot over the past year to sort out my feelings and thoughts about many subjects not just atheism. (atheists tend to be awesome at figuring out many things) Anyway, you are all welcome and I look forward to videos that you share that help as well. Laters. :)

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Permalink Reply by Jason on November 2, 2012 at 9:25am

Your father - “You were told what the Scriptures said and then given the opportunity on your own free-will to either accept or reject that. Salvation is a choice, not a forced belief. No one has come into your home and dragged you off to church against your will”
Right….Freewill…. Believe in this or burn in hell forever…. That’s freewill for you. Citizens of North Korea… you have freewill! You can go along with this horrific life under a brutal dictator or choose for yourself to reject it …. (and suffer the consequences of torture, imprisonment, death of your family and yourself) … but you have freewill.
Reminds me of my mother (business owner). One day a masked man came into her store and put a gun up to her head. He said, “the money or your life”. So… he gave my mom a choice. Freewill right?
I question the morality of anyone who subscribes to this Christian concept of freewill. I honestly don’t even think they realize how immoral it is. It’s like they have some cognitive defect which prohibits their ability to see what is right and what is wrong.

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Permalink Reply by Amanda Mrakovich on November 2, 2012 at 11:02pm

I think you are right Jason, they don't realize how immoral some of their beliefs are. I suppose that they do not find it immoral because god says that it is moral and if god says it, they believe it, and that's the end of it.

So messed up.

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