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Permalink Reply by Sol Invictus on March 9, 2011 at 2:00pm

I like to see posts tagged appropriately, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. :P

That pdf you posted is fascinating; I'll definitely pass that along, it was quite a read. The Problem of Evil has been a hot topic in the campus Freethought group for a while now, it should go over well.

Thanks Nelson!

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Permalink Reply by Sol Invictus on March 12, 2011 at 11:09pm

Nothing wrong with that. Warm and fuzzy is a great feeling. ;)

I really like this Maitzen fellow. I'll have to read more of his work. Thanks.

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Permalink Reply by Tom on April 5, 2012 at 5:22pm

Steven Maitzen cannot hold the view that God is omnipotent, omniscient and purely benevolent. If he does then his claim is logically invalid. 

"god allows suffering to exist because suffering is a necessary consequence of a higher good; if god were to refuse suffering to exist then there wouldn't be this higher good."

If God were omnipotent, then he could bring about any final result (in this case the higher good) without being constrained by necessities. If something is necessary it logically implies that there is a constraint. If something is necessary, it is forced, and nothing can be forced upon an omnipotent being. If there is a constraint, then there is no omnipotence. 

Its amazing the depths to which even professional philosophers can stoop in the defence of religion. I haven't read his stuff, so it could be the case that he does not make assumptions concerning omnipotence. If this is the case, my bad. 

Perhaps a briefer statement could have been: if God's will (higher good) is conditional upon something, then he is restricted and is not omnipotent. 

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Permalink Reply by Morgan Matthew on March 9, 2011 at 11:00pm

Double Featured!

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Greg Gorey on April 23, 2011 at 11:07pm

suffering seems more probable given indifference than a divine architect. any disagreements?

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Permalink Reply by Jim Minion on April 24, 2011 at 6:23pm

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7, KJV)

 

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (Amos 3:6, KJV)

 

There is sin and evil in the world because two beings that knew nothing of good or evil, right or wrong made a choice that your god gave them no way to understand there was a right or wrong choice. At this point we get original sin that you are born with and we are told you can't make the right choice but you have "free will".

 

Is you must believe in Jesus or burn in hell for ever is free will or just a jaded game that is called "Free Will"?

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Permalink Reply by Jim Minion on April 25, 2011 at 1:06pm

Language requires duality, it's not what you say but it is also what you don't say.

If god created everything then he created evil, what does good mean without evil.

I understand the believers need to think god could not have anything to do with evil but if that were the case then god would have limits on it's self, not very god like huh?

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Permalink Reply by Mabel on June 1, 2012 at 2:51pm

and anyway, why couldn't god have given us free will but created us in such a way as to make so that we always freely choose good?

@ Nelson - Because there is no god lol.

A Christian is not going to be able to come to terms with this fact just because something does not make sense. Most Christians don't place value on making sense when it comes to the behavior of their god, and feel comfortable with that, unless or until something happens that; a) makes them feel free enough from fear to allow doubt, and b) enables them to understand the concept of cognitive bias and the basics of statistical probabilities.

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Permalink Reply by Sol Invictus on April 24, 2011 at 5:56pm

You're welcome! Hope you all gain as much from it as I have. :)

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Permalink Reply by Sol Invictus on April 25, 2011 at 4:59pm

Hmm. Yeah, I think they have been deleted, or maybe his profile has... Dunno. That's odd. :/

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Permalink Reply by William Occam on June 1, 2012 at 1:28pm

That is interesting. Thanks, Kyle. I've never seen one of these before.

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