In the God Delusion, Dawkins categorizes Atheism into two types - Big atheism and small atheism. Small atheism denies the existence of Jesus, Jehovah, Allah and other personal deities. Big atheism denies the possibility of our universe being created by some unknown intelligence - whatever it may be.

I think i've always been a "Small" atheist, and rather agnostic about big atheism. Recently i find myself leaning more and more towards thinking that It could be quite plausible that our universe is indeed designed.

The big bang theory describes an outburst of energy from a singular point, and expansion of time, light, heat and space. This singular point contained all mass in the universe- all elements required for forming stars, galaxies and ultimately - life. As the universe expanded and cooled down, matter was formed, changed shape, became nebulae, stars, galaxies...

None of this happened by accident

It happened because our universe is ultimately made of different types of atoms - cataloged in the periodic table. these atoms have different "natural" characteristics, and when combined in different orders- can form molecules, who in turn have "natural" different characteristics. heat and cold affect the structure of these molecules, causing them to form matter in different shapes or forms. matter in turn has mass, which causes attraction and gravity. 

One could almost look at the periodic table as LEGO blocks - from which you can construct the most wondrous things. and these LEGO blocks each have imbued natural abilities. hydrogen and oxygen make air, carbon and oxygen create water. the whole thing is scale-able, and consistent in its behavior.

As a programmer, this might just be my brain trying to force a known structure onto something unrelated- but dammit- it just looks too damn organized. can a Multiverse theory - random universes with different "constants" popping in ant out of existence, really explain this? because this can easily be correlated to any development environment.

Any good programming framework will give you these LEGO blocks - numbers, strings, integers, arrays, data maps - and on a higher level - text boxes, bitmap containers, sound players, mouse events, timers etc.... in essence these are LEGO blocks- allowing you to build apps, games, websites...

you would have to be mad to suggest that a development environment can simply come into existence on its own- even by chance. So can a multiverse really explain the underlying rules of our universe?

This question became even more difficult for me when my daughter was born. I understand how natural selection works - how genes mutate when creating new life, with helpful mutations giving an evolutionary advantage and being passed on. however this does not explain the inner programming each and every one of us is born with.

from the moment of conception each and every one of us has the full future of his growth cycle imbued in his DNA. our body growth is a scripted experience. we start smiling at 2 months, start laughing at 3 months, start crawling, walking, talking, teething, grow an ego, change a second pair of teeth, hit puberty, sexual prime, menopause and death.

upon hitting certain predefined cue points, our bodies begin producing certain hormones, growing hair, losing hair. 

we are scripted. 

is it so unthinkable that evolution, natural selection and the big bang theory give only PART of the story? that our universe is the product of some sort of design - a development environment containing lego blocks at the atomic level, and abiding by rules (evolution simply being one of those scripted rules) - to which matter was "poured" in like water into a container?

is it so preposterous to suggest that not just the vast complexity - but rather the harmony in interaction between the elements that make up our universe, their natural attraction and repulsion of each other, their ability to join and form ever complex structures - and the inner programming that governs our growth, can very well be the product of planning? That without this programming matter would just be floating around in space?

It seems to me that atheism just accepts as a "given" that the very interaction at the atomic and molecular level between the elements is just a natural process- inherent to our universe. but why would this be inherent?

One can easily claim that a creator only adds more complexity- however, truly believing that something as ordered, consistent and perfect as the laws of mathematics just popping into existence - complete and coherent- is in my mind something that cannot be taken seriously.

On the other hand - how seriously can the idea of a higher intelligence be regarded? It too would undoubtedly require a creator. A similar point can be made about the multiverse - but without answering how these laws came about- only that they poofed into existence by chance.

However - since this can go on forever, with every level of complexity requiring its own creator or containing parent- there can never be an end to this.

For this reason i can see it sufficient to "stop" at some point- but continue pointing out that nothing "just happens". I do not accept that the underlining logic of our universe could not just pop into existence. The laws of physics could not have poofed complete out of thin air. no way in hell. 

And if it wasn't clear- i'm not advocating theism of any kind. i don't believe in any personal deity whatsoever. but i do keep an open mind when presented with NO evidence either way.

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In two battery-powered clocks, I turned the batteries around and time stopped.

I put the batteries in the correct way and time started again.

Take that, universe!

equations can run backwards and forwards, but not time, even if the equation describes time, etc.

Do not confuse math with actual can be misinterpreted.

IE: An equation CAN be run forwards and backwards, but that doesn't mean time can.

You can mathematically have a square root of a negative number..but, not in reality, etc.


PS - LOL at Tom's clocks.

I had some where it ran backwards with the cells reversed.


The vast majority, as obvious in the posts to this thread, do not see or feel the huge pink elephant that seats on them which is our BRAINS who were product of a spit of semen DNA from a creator penis, is responsible for creating THOUGHT…and the BRAIN is the Universe inside our skulls with which one creates them.
This thread does NOT define Creator. What is a creator?. Didn't a Penis with a spit of CUM DNA created our brains defining in truth what a "creator" is?
Thoughts created in the BRAIN are the concepts expressed here.
Should I give each poster Datura-Atropa tea so they could see what happens to their thoughts when they post?  ...posts that would be rational-logical only to them but would be irrational and demented to those who didn't drink the Tea. Does anyone know WHY that is?
Cogitate, Connect, Deduct, Verify and Express.
The BRAIN, is the Universe in itself that is getting to "know" or be aware of itself. A sentient universe composed of quantum thought, quantum entanglement where past present & future are ONE coming in and out of existence in many places at the same time. Speed of Light? Try speed of thought !..and we all have it inside our skulls in our universes of thoughts with is the brain.

Has anyone attempt at measuring objects popping in and out of existence in our dreams? How big are those things we perceive in our dreams? What is the time of their duration? Why is that the time lapse when one closes eyes falling asleep and beginning to dream is different to the time when we awaken making us feel confused when we think about it?…Time of a thought can not in truth be measured by attaching electrodes on our skulls. It would be like measuring sound waves using a ruler. They only measure electromagnetism and the location of the impulses.
This is like thinking inside a box, unable to cogitate, connect, deduct, express which is due to ReligiousPsychosis upbringing in a ChristPsychosis infected nation where people ignore they have one and is responsible for their thoughts and resulting actions.
Thinking inside a box atrophies cognition and is, IMHO, conducive to temporolimbical interference, cognitive dissonance, sensory gating deficits, autism spectrum disorder which lies DORMANT, not becoming noticeable till later in adulthood.
This becomes obvious in the schizophrenia-like reasoning at the core of all religious Psychosis disorders.

Let's not forget the imprinting period where the BRAIN after emerging from the COC (cave of creation) begins to navigate the earth using 5 senses. ( Olfactory, Visual, Auditory, Gustatory, Tactile)  
The concept of Universe from NOTHING, which is irrational to some, but quite logical to others is created in the BRAIN…again, let me give Dr Krauss the brilliant astrophysicist that expressed this, Datura-Atropa tea and he'll be reasoning like Ken Ham, Francis Collins and other ChristPsychosis infected imbeciles…
The BRAIN logic centers, the immune system that protects it from ACCEPTING irrational illogical nonsense as true has been momentarily compromised…a torrent of feel good dopamine-endorphine perception distorting chemical reign supreme Logical rational thought at this moment doesn't exist.
So, what is the speed of thought?
keep in ming Einstein's BRAIN was also created by a spit of DNA CUM…he was a genius to all, but an evolved mutate crazy ape that was dumb, to some. It would be interesting to see in all Einstein's paper how many times he brings up his BRAIN, not even when he was bathing it with the sounds of a violin, that gave him so much endorphins & dopamine. He was an addict to sounds but was ignorant where were they perceived, how, and that viruses in his gut contribute to their assimilation in the neural array.
The more one knows the more difficult it is for others to lie, but to SEE and grasp the Image/Concept produced one MUST first connect all the dots ( pixel/thoughts) looking at them from a distance while moving in a 360 degree from all angles.

While cogitating one must learn first what the word Atheism means.  Americans, due to ChristPsychosis upbringing education, are extremely ignorant of etymology using many words while ignorant of their meaning.
Atheism. Latin: A=NO + Theo/God/Imaginary Friend. No belief in gods=imaginary friend/delusions ergo SANE. Free of Religious Psychosis Schizophrenia brain HIV. Nobody seem to realize in truth an atheist is a SANE person.
Logic will set one free for it destroys the Brain Virus HIV of god belief that would insist that the addition of 3+3 equals to any number it says it is, BUT 6.
Brain comes FIRST for it uses the speed of thought in a multiverse, the Ouroboros of Infinity where the infinitely large becomes the infinitely small.
Elementary, for it is all in the ANS ( Autonomic Nervous System) controlled by the BRAIN.

gallup's mirror

Gallup's mirror? Cognitive dissonance since Gallup was an evolved mutated primate that used his BRAIN to create the concept of self awareness.
Hmm...Lobster dinner with mushrooms while the marble stairs were cleaned by the pilot that was flying a 747. lol..

there is nothing to create

consciousness would have to be interesting to you to understand more about this 

everything is created and people are aware at places of what exists already

along with this there is the knowing that :there is something always happening: and that :everything moves and communicates by interest span:

chaos exists (also called outside of understanding ability) but only for who and what agrees to go there and it is a demension where time does not exist


Time would need to exist...but "In a dimension" is an odd phrase.

For example, length is an agreed upon dimension...does time exist within it?


measurement of all kind exist in a dimension and distance and time are placed there

in that same process place there is non related change or pressure and rupture of pressure at certain thresholds - there is no debate about that

there is more than that one process place (process place is better phraselology than dimension) where people are conscious and participating sharing at a united interest span (interest span is also called an order or a plan or a will or a preference for certain sight and sound over others, sight and sound that can be added to seamlessly --- agreeable sight and sound, it can be said that way)

there is a united area that is outside of all institutions -- with religion being one able to have cults and sects -- where people all share a common understanding of how they are alive and what is moving them and prospering their communication

again consciosness would have to be interesting to someone to understand something completely about this

the process place for measures or research is provided so to give someone an interest that they then use in the united area, an interest that can be added to giving them knowledge that is truth -- knowledge that is not found in the secular or religious theist areas

what i am writing about exists as an experience and someone would have to have an experience with understanding and knowing to be alive at the united area -- if someone is interested with what is always on, they would be going in the direction of the united area until there is nothing else to understand at agreement with the whole

conscious to the united area, someone is moving away from chaos with that disorder being another process place





there is a united area that is outside of all institutions -- with religion being one able to have cults and sects -- where people all share a common understanding of how they are alive and what is moving them and prospering their communication

I agree, but would add that scientific instutions are naturally better at correcting each other and coming together into more unifiable agreement (about science) than are religious sects and cults. I think this is only starting just now, in the new science of discovering and describing conciousness.

hello to pope beanie

religon is never supported to come together at natural agreement about how they are being provided to and cults also will not achieve this

atheism is an area inside of an institution relating the same way as religion and to be consious aware and interested (having trackable experiences) one has to be moved out of a divided consciousness areas (the part of instutitinos that are never doing what they can continue to do, never interesting) and moved to the united consciousness area where no correction is needed and what is interesting and necessary is being provided seamlessly to your awareness and to  your immediate environment

science is interested with knowledge by definition and i understand knowledge together with the word truth 

that science in this area, where there is a president obama, is becoming interested with consciousness is good and they will have to have an experience themselves with consciousness outside of the institutional parts of science to get to the truth about things such as always providership

currently people who are alive outside of institutions aware to the united area are being persecuted for understanding something (being able to do and say complete) that is not mainstream

i am happy to see that you are interested with consciousness and this word is also described as someone's circumstance (that a circumstance is alive in the moral process place might be understandable to you where you reference about yourself as pope - the moral realm is something the divided area of the catholic church writes and talks about and the moral process place can be moved out of the divided institution, then relating to always circumstances)

how we understand something is interested and how is dependent upon the circumstances someone is being given and which type of circumstance is dependent upon what you can agree to and what you have in your immediate environment (can it participate with you as one)

it is not good to have separated circumstances and is good to have united circumstances in order to be participating at an interest that is being provided to all knowing while experiencing celebration

happy to dialouge with you, known here with your beanie

as an after thought -- would you take the pope's used beanie while giving him a new one? it is just this practice that is an example of how religion, the catholic church in this case, does not know how to give and be provided to an interesting experience

always doing what i know how to do - all and one

always doing what i know how to do

Which apparently doesn't include capitalization. What is with your no-capital letters policy? Are you a great admirer of ee cummings or something?

hello unseen

are you loving me very much today

everything has meaning as you are aware

i yell at no one and nothing ends

i am infatuated with knowing by art and literature

taking my time with it - all and one



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