The Pendulum Swing: Has Feminism Gone Too Far?

Is there still a gender gap in today's Western society?  Are women really still as oppressed as feminists argue?  

As a female in today's Western society I feel that cultural awareness for women's rights has gone past the point of fairness and equity.  Today's Western world feels like a woman's world.  Thoughts?

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One way feminism may have gone too far is in harping on the pay discrepancy because I strongly suspect the statistics they bring out are classic "apples and oranges."

NO, I'm not denying there's a pay discrepancy, I'm saying that if there is a general pay discrepancy, there may be a rational and non-oppressive reason for it. 

Instead of comparing all employed men with all employed women, compare men and women who make themselves as close to exactly equally valuable to their employer.

Take men who are willing to work overtime on demand, to travel a lot, to move away from family and friends to get a promotion, whose productivity is at a certain level, etc., then compare them to women matching that description. Then find men and women whose pay is inexplicably different and you're talking apples and apples. Talking about women vs. men in the aggregate is meaningless.

That's one area where feminism may have gone too far.

Far. far more important than your individual attributes is what group you belong to.

That attitude fundamentally ails our society, both left and right.  (But only when the right practices it, is it called "bigotry".)  When looking to fill a job, as often as not they will insist that it go to an X, and actual qualification or merit is secondary.  (For example, when State Senator Evie Hudak resigned rather than face a recall election, the party committee that replaced her only considered women.)  (For another example, how many people pick their preferred presidential candidate on the bases of plumbing or skin color?  In particular, how much of the support for Hillary is due to the fact that people think it's about time a woman (any woman so long as she isn't dogforbid a republican) held the office?  How much support for Obama was due to his skin color?)

Is there still a gender gap in today's Western society?  Are women really still as oppressed as feminists argue?

Not that I can see... at least not at an institutional level like so many feminists claim. It's easy enough to find examples of individual women being oppressed or mistreated, but under the law we are all equal.

Today's Western world feels like a woman's world.  Thoughts?

It's easy to feel that way sometimes. Mostly it's equal and the difference we see is individual people choosing what they do. There's a few specific issues where we don't (and probably never will, due to biology) have equality.

Of course you don't see it. You are a straight white man. What kind of discrimination do you face? How able are you to even notice subtle prejudice?

If women at the same job make less...then the discrimination is institutional. If women are sexually harassed in their job of usually male employees and forced to fight kicking and screaming to get to the top...there is institutional problems. When the police don't take women's sexuall harassment seriously but jump on the case when a mans sports car has been damaged...there is institutional discrimination. When women with high qualification s are selected proportionally less than men for academic positions...there is institutionalised discrimination. I can go on for hours here. So many men and women won't believe it because they don't see it...or experience it...nor treat women that way themselves...nor care as much if it happened to them.

What kind of discrimination do you face?

The kind where welfare and scholarships are more difficult for me to access because I'm white, or more specifically, I'm not Australian Aboriginal.

If women at the same job make less.

IF. I'm yet to see any evidence of this. In fact, on average young women fresh out of college/univeristy are currently out earning their male counterparts. Older women aren't because on average they take significant time out of their careers to have children.

If women are sexually harassed in their job

IF. Has not happened in any workplace I've been a part of. Ever. Also, this would not constitute institutional sexism. Sexism, yes, but its not institutionalised.

forced to fight kicking and screaming to get to the top

Much like the men trying to get to the top then. Isn't that equality? There's a reason I'm not mid-upper management at this point in my career, it's not a lack of qualification, it's a lack of wanting it enough to fight for it.

When the police don't take women's sexuall harassment seriously but jump on the case when a mans sports car has been damaged

Are you referring to a specific example? This is too specific to respond to in a general way.

When women with high qualification s are selected proportionally less than men for academic positions

Women are favoured in stem field jobs 2:1 over men because of excessive pressure from SJWs and feminists championing for "equality". Not sure about in academia.

I can go on for hours here

As could I, no doubt neither of us would change the others mind.

So many men and women won't believe it because they don't see it...or experience it...

How many is "So many"? Could we call it a vast majority? In that case, wouldn't the people experiencing it therefore be tiny minority and thus not institutional discrimination. If we can't call it a vast majority, why don't more people see the problems?

nor treat women that way themselves

I wouldn't treat anyone that way... not just women.

nor care as much if it happened to them

So your saying this is more about the proverbial thickness of ones skin than what is actually happening?

2012, 2013, and 2014:  in each of these years, a congressional committee was formed to discuss legislation on women's health.  These committees discussed access to abortion, contraception, and funding for women's health services.  What is significant about these committees is that not one of the members of any of those committees was a woman.  These committees which purported to be about crafting effective legislation surrounding the health of women had not one single woman on any of them.  As recently as Jan, 2015, an all-male committee in Virginia was discussing whether insurance companies should be required to provide women contraception as a covered service.  Whether you believe that contraception should or should not be covered by insurance, the fact that the committee had not one woman on it should give you pause.  This occurs at both the state and national levels. 

As far as I am concerned, as long as all-male committees continue to hold discussions,make decisions and pass laws regulating how, if, and what kinds of healthcare I, as a woman, can receive, then:  Yes, a gender gap still exists. 

+1!

Erin, as you now know, visiting TA can expand people's horizons.

In the early 1970s I was politically active and concluded that American women were the only majority who were treated as a minority. In the late 1970s and early 1980s I was out on the streets working to get the Equal Rights Amendment ratified.

Why? My mother (born 1906) had been a bit of a feminist and I got along better with feminists than with traditional women, who wanted me to read their minds.

As in every effort to expand rights, a few women then knew how to make the oppression of those times work for them and cared not a damn for others.

Many men I spoke with supported ratification. I converted a few by pointing out that if they died, their widows might have to support their kids with much less money. A very few told me I was nuts and refused. One told me I was a traitor. Though briefly surprised, I laughed.

BTW, I know a man now who's raising a kid. His wife is their family's earner. When I was a kid, people were not free to do they are doing.

In Western society, yes, it has.
"Are women really still as oppressed as feminists argue?" No, not at all.
"Today's Western world feels like a woman's world." Exactly - look up MIGTOW as the growing response.
MIGTOW is bad for society, but is a rational response to an otherwise intractable situation for men.
In a healthy society, people should be equal, gender-wise, but it is riddled with old paradigms that serve little or no useful purpose now.


Try to be balanced - not biased.

Here is a popular meme that I have made changes to (in red):

What you should take away from this is the sly, underhand way in which the unaltered image tried to portray women as being victims, when, as I have tried to point out by changing this, people are the victims of violence, regardless of gender.

This isn't being misogynist, or about championing men's rights, it is simply looking at the issue in a more balanced, neutral way, which more people should do for the betterment of us all.

...and of course nobody had any feeling about that one way or another.  No comment, no issue, no inclination or bias one way or another.  Is it only me that sees the irrationality of human ideals?  Or maybe everyone subscribe to the feminist narrative?  I'll log back in in a week, but after that...

Your revisions remind me of the tone deaf "All lives matter" response to "Black lives matter." 

Now, imagine that your daughter has bone cancer and so you become a bone cancer advocate with the slogan "Bone cancer matters." Then you hear "All cancer matters." 

People are entitled to feel how they feel about problems they feel affect them. Other people who attempt to minimize the problem by pointing out that other things matter, too, are being tone deaf and totally missing the point.

Considering humanity's history, it may be fair to keep asking what "too far" means as the pendulum oscillates over the next thousand years or so.

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