The JWs came back...

Hey everyone,

Didja miss me?

So, I've been in ongoing discussion with some local 'Witnesses.

Any former members care to share insight?

The attached file is my most recent bit o'lit.

Basically, they gave me a ton of stuff that had the most recent medical reference at 1990. I called em out on it by showing them capabilities and differences in phones and laptops of 1990. Then I showed them pictures of phones vs. then and now. Laptops vs. them and now. The INTERNET vs. then and now, Technology..ect. I was patient explaining how our leaps in technology advance medicine. They admitted that the last time they were in a science classroom or really interested in current events of academia, it was when they were teens.

I was honestly reluctant to take em on. That's a whole gap in education to make up for.

They seem like nice people.

So..Here it is: This is their most recent publication. It's the official church word, and supposed to answer all my questions.

I have a lot.

Like.. am I on a list or in files of any sort?

My deadline is this Tuesday. That's when they will be back. Even if the entire file isn't properly debated by Tuesday, I'd like to see everyone's opinion on the first few points, if at all possible.

I won't lie. Any further advice is appreciated.

0 members like this

Attachments:

lc_E.pdf, 3.5 MB

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on April 29, 2013 at 1:50pm

@Ray - I downloaded the PDF, as you obviously did, and waded through it, pausing only for episodes of sidesplitting laughter, and one of the things I found most amusing was the statement, "Many scientists believe that all of earth's animals appeared all at once, and that nothing has changed since." Of course those "Many scientists" are never named, nor is it ever given what percentage those "Many scientists" comprise out of all scientists involved in researching evolution, yet later, the statement that earth's animals appeared all at once, is listed as a given, rather than the opinions of a handful of their pet "experts."

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on April 29, 2013 at 4:09pm

Just read it - what a crock of crap! Without a god to intervene - as in, "God help us!" - what can anyone do when theists pretend to possess scientific knowledge. and use their pseudo-science so irresponsibly? And address it to children?!!

The one thing he forgot to mention to the kiddies, "Oh, yeah, and if you don't believe, your fellow Muslims will kill you - it's in the book --"

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Permalink Reply by Barry Adamson on April 29, 2013 at 4:30pm

If all else fails, answer the door naked and invite them to come on in! I had a friend do that once after they interrupted him right after he was done with a shower. He answered, thinking it was something harmless so he hid behind the door and politely tried to speak with them without revealing he was only wearing a towel. However, after telling them he could not speak with them at the moment, and they politely insisting they must speak with him, he dropped towel, opened wide the door, and said: "Come on in!" They have not been back since.

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Permalink Reply by _Robert_ on April 29, 2013 at 4:39pm

I got it ! Answer the door with a pet snake around your neck, wearing nothing but a fig leaf and holding a half-eaten apple and say come on in folks, my name is Adam.

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Permalink Reply by Barry Adamson on April 29, 2013 at 7:28pm

Even better! :)

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Permalink Reply by Ron Humphrey on April 30, 2013 at 10:35am

You have got to be kidding. lol. I did exactly the same thing several years ago. I was in the shower and here come the JWs I yell out don't come in (my front door was open). They did not listen and came right into the living room. I appeared with only a towel. I said to them "did you not hear me say don't come in" and dropped the towel. They could not get out fast enough. They must have spread the word. I was never plagued by them again.

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Permalink Reply by Barry Adamson on April 30, 2013 at 3:41pm

Not kidding! It really happened, and that is quite a coincidence!

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Permalink Reply by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on April 29, 2013 at 5:19pm

Attached is an excellent rebuttal in .pdf format on the J.W. pamphlets “Was life created” and “The origins of Life - 5 questions worth asking”. I use it on them when they call. I do not know who to credit it to but I salute them anytime I read it.

I am currently debating the local J.W. “ringleader” who returned after a year last Saturday. It may be because I dispatched a few of his novices during the year (3 more Atheists lol). Can anyone point me to some good rebuttals of “prophesy”, especially that of Isaiah and Daniel. I have been using infidels.org but there may be something specific you know of.

BTW – Good to see you back and Dave G. too.

Attachments:

Weighed.pdf, 1.6 MB

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Permalink Reply by Misty: Baytheist Living! on April 29, 2013 at 6:48pm

Heya Reg! Good to see you.

Thanks for the resource.

I'm loving it.

It almost seems empty, though. Like, how much evidence to the contrary must I present them with, to break their conviction?

Never enough. UUUugggh.

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Permalink Reply by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on April 29, 2013 at 5:48pm

…..and even if you don’t debate J.W.’s (for your sins) you should download the “weighed” .pdf above as it is also a good scientific read in its own right.

Usually the J.W.’s have to excuse themselves to get out of my house. Man, I love a captive audience of theists. They just keep coming even though they know I am an Atheist…or the “real deal” as they once called me because I knew the Bible “better than many Catholics” Lol. It’s as if they want to hone their arguments and debating skills on me.

I usually leave a few Mormon pamphlets lying around if I know they are calling. It really sets them off. For everything else there is Mastercard.

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on April 29, 2013 at 6:24pm

Here's the problem I have - my neighborhood is predominately Hispanic, and without being racist (which I'm not), they are either more gullible, less knowledgeable, or simply more polite than I, so after their first visit to my home, the JW's have never come back. I truly do not believe they've left the neighborhood, but I suspect they bypass my house, to go to those of the Hispanics.

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Permalink Reply by Misty: Baytheist Living! on April 29, 2013 at 6:08pm

Ok. So here's the backstory-backstory.

When he came to my house before, we already had a little talk about definitions between 'hypothesis, theory, speculation, ect.

He left me with a bit o' lit (Thanks for the smile!) and I responded below:

(His response to my response was the horrible file I attached earlier.)

Bloodless Alternative Strategies - I really have no argument against any adult making any informed medical choice. If your choice includes the variable "Because blood is sacred to my people." Would be as respected by me as it would be to any native culture. I think it's great that you're willing to take a risk and be test-subjects for what might very well be common-day procedure modifications for the better. I think parent rights go a long way towards taking a justified risk. I don't think it shields against murder or manslaughter charges when a minor dies in a clearly preventable manner. Consenting adults are the pioneers of industry. In a Post-Antibiotic world (that we might well be experiencing in our lifetime) all surgical options will be potentially powerful tools for human survival.

Over All Observance of Literature and Videos- Why is 1998 the most current citation?!??! C'mon. People update Youtube channels a few times a week. This was like watching a bad shampoo commercial. Update your graphics. Get up-to-date surgical procedures. If you are going to play ball with science, you have to play ball with CURRENT science. References have to be in the last year at the MOST or you won't be taken seriously. Things change that fast.

Let's clear up some vocabulary issues:

Definitions: Hypothesis:

hy·poth·e·sis

[hahy-poth-uh-sis, hi-] Show IPA

noun, plural hy·poth·e·ses [-seez] Show IPA .

a proposition, or set of propositions, set forth as an explanationfor the occurrence of some specified group of phenomena, eitherasserted merely as a provisional conjecture to guideinvestigation (working hypothesis) or accepted as highlyprobable in the light of established facts.

a proposition assumed as a premise in an argument.

the antecedent of a conditional proposition.

a mere assumption or guess.

Origin:
1590–1600; < Greek hypóthesis basis, supposition. See hypo-, thesis

Related forms

hy·poth·e·sist, noun

coun·ter·hy·poth·e·sis, noun, plural coun·ter·hy·poth·e·ses.

sub·hy·poth·e·sis, noun, plural sub·hy·poth·e·ses.

Can be confused: 1. hypothesis, law, theory (see synonym study attheory) ; 2. deduction, extrapolation, induction, generalization,hypothesis .

the·o·ry

[thee-uh-ree, theer-ee] Show IPA

noun, plural the·o·ries.

a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonlyregarded as correct, that can be used as principles ofexplanation and prediction for a class of phenomena: Einstein'stheory of relativity. Synonyms: principle, law, doctrine.

a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural andsubject to experimentation, in contrast to well-establishedpropositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actualfact. Synonyms: idea, notion hypothesis, postulate.Antonyms: practice, verification, corroboration, substantiation.

Mathematics . a body of principles, theorems, or the like,belonging to one subject: number theory.

the branch of a science or art that deals with its principles ormethods, as distinguished from its practice: music theory.

a particular conception or view of something to be done or ofthe method of doing it; a system of rules or principles:conflicting theories of how children best learn to read.

scientific theory
noun
a theory that explains scientific observations; "scientific theories must be falsifiable" With that in mind, Talking Snake In Garden Is A Hypothesis. Evolution is a Theory. Germ Theory (aka, wash your hands) is a Theory just as commonly accepted as Evolution in the modern world. There are equal amounts of evidence for both germs and evolution. Neither germ theory or evolutionary theory are or will become laws, like the Law of Gravity, because 'Laws' only apply to mathematics, (something that can be quantified) and not biology. They are different fields of science with different terminology. Any Easy Way To Explain Evolution: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2011/05/04/an-easy-way...