The modern skeptic needs to be well armed to deal with the array of woo being spewed these days.  Biblical criticism is pretty much a solved game but the new-agers can toss out faux-facts faster than you can say, “Bullshit!”

One flavour making the rounds here recently has been the junk science of Terrence McKenna.  An incredibly articulate ethnobotanist of the late 20th century, he was able to public several books that garnered the attention of aging hippies and which seem to have renewed their popularity with contemporary new agers.  As a self-described psychonaut, his writing mostly revolved around his ever more desperate attempts to instill perceived empirical value to the observations he made of his own consciousness while higher than a kite.

His timewave zero and novelty theories tied into eschatological prognostications for 2012 – a prophecy failure that his devotees overlook as quickly as the adherents of Benny Hinn overlook his.  Perhaps the most entertaining of his drug-addled ramblings was his ‘Stoned Ape’ conjecture.

In his Stoned Ape conjecture, McKenna tried to convince himself that use of magic mushrooms was the catalyst that sprung homo-sapiens into existence from homo-erectus.  He starts by assuming that the magnificent shrooms appeared on the African savanna 100,000 years ago and made their way into the homo-erectus diet – both assumptions being supported by zero evidence.  He then misrepresents a scientific study about visual perception to suggest that use of these mushrooms increased visual acuity in our early ancestors – thereby making them better hunters.

Based on his first two unfounded assumptions and an outright fabrication he then jumps to the conclusion that the results performed a miraculous one-time instance of Lamarckian inheritance, altering the offspring of psilocybin-gobbling hominids enough to speciate them from surrounding populations of homo-erectus.  It just goes on and on, and he actually managed get published for it in 1992 - Food of the Gods.

I feel this load of malarkey is worth our attention, as skeptics, so we can be better prepared to counter the ridiculous claims of McKennites that we may encounter.  I know there is one with us lately and felt he might like to put his thoughts on display here for all of us to observe the workings of such a mind.

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At least most alcohol users (myself included) are willing to admit its destructive aspects. The proponents of psychedelics don't like to talk about bad trips, flashbacks, etc.

"At least most alcohol users (myself included) are willing to admit its destructive aspects. The proponents of psychedelics don't like to talk about bad trips, flashbacks, etc."

I disagree. Understanding the real pros and cons are important before trying any substance, and none of the advocates of psychedelics that I know would deny that there is always the potential for a scary or negative trip. It comes with the territory.

There haven't been very many admissions of the downside of psychedelics here. In fact, you are about the first I can recall.

I don't think anyone DENIED there are downsides though. I think they were just arguing the positives, as I think everyone already knows there are negatives.

You yourself have not admitted there can be positive effects, on the other hand (as far as I've seen, at least).


"The proponents of psychedelics don't like to talk about bad trips, flashbacks, etc"

Well I mentioned bad trips (Ive never had one) earlier in this piece, I have no problem talking about them, why would we not like to talk about them?...  and flashbacks arent necessarily a bad thing either.

What do you understand a flashback to be?

A lot of the negative experiences are mostly brought on by panic.


He does have a voice that can put you to asleep, especially in that 8-hour video, but one emphasis he will make is that dose range does, in fact, make a difference. If you had a low dose of psilocybin and you compared that to a high dose of psilocybin, these experiences would be orders of magnitude different from each other. In other words, you cannot extrapolate the low dose to imagine  what the higher dose experience may be like which is what I feel you're doing here.

And the "heroic dose," by the way for something like psilocybin if you weigh about 140 lbs is, as a general rule, 5 dried grams. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that if you have 5 dried grams and you weigh about 140 lbs you will have the "full spectrum" experience.

In my own experience, I've had 5 dried grams on two separate occasions spread across years. The second time around, I didn't even experience hallucination. The experience MUST cause hallucination. After all, these things are called "hallucinogens." I believe it may be because the second time around, I may have gotten a batch that wasn't very potent. So, there's many factors involved here, but Terence McKenna points out that the "heroic dose" is well away from the "toxic" or "fatal dose." In order to reach a fatal dose, you'd have to eat nearly a pound! Perhaps even more than that of psilocybin-containing mushrooms. So, imagine, there's approximately 144 grams in one pound, the "heroic dose" is about 5 dried grams.

Most experienced psychedelic users know it's not your mortality that you must fear for in these experiences, but your sanity. So, the precautions to take are things like "set and setting," meaning the setting or environment you take these things in, and "set," meaning the mindset you're in at the time of the experiment. You don't want to be severely depressed or anything like that, etc. 

And concerning "ineffability." I mean, it's often said this experience is "ineffable," nevertheless there are some people that attempt to say something about it. Contemporarily, the phenomenon in consciousness that the "heroic dose" can elicit has been called "ego death." Maybe you could wiki that, but I have gone over this a little more thoroughly on another thread on the forums here, and I'll link you to that, and I'll also link to the infamous Bill Hicks' description of the "heroic dose." 

God's Will thread

Bill Hicks - Gifts of Forgiveness


Terence McKenna really does sound like a cult leader -  like Jim Jones. : )

5 dried grams would be to much for me. I'm petite so I would probably need three for that effect. The most I've had at a time is about 6 fresh ones.

You dont always need to take it for the heavy effect, It can be used differently. I like to keep active and go for walks. Especially at night. You feel like you can keep walking for years ... Doing ordinary things like shopping becomes a very interesting experience and you do tend to smoke and smile a lot. : ))

 All this mushie talk is whetting my appetite and its making me want some.. I'm already making plans to go hunting for some after our next rainy weekend.

Jim Jones was just... insane, at least Terence McKenna possesses... ratiocination, and he's not telling people to drink cyanide, but N,N-DMT... so you won't undergo literal death, but ego death.


I'm finding Terence McKennas video's very informative.

I know he's nothing like Jim Jones.

If only Jim Jones used his intelligence for good instead of evil.

I certainly never had the set or the setting, and the motives were recreational or peer pressure. Having a drug addict family member, and having grown up in a heavy drug area and seeing the consequences certainly sealed my opinion. It almost seems like...well I have lost control of my life, why not just kick the last nail in. Now you are saying, if you do it right you may experience this "spiritual" revelation and ego death. And apparently some of these people end up as conspiracy theory advocates like Hicks. To me It seems like the result is paranoia and delusions about god. I am never gonna believe that our government "staged a fake moon landing, "orchestrated 9-11", or even come close to pulling off an Oliver Stone movie; that early primates evolved by tripping; or that I am spiritual (Unless we get the junk out of this "science"). Can hallucinating make you happier, give you new ideas, and perhaps have you believe you are spiritual? Sure, I'll buy that some people can do that. I have come up with viable electronics ideas (patent still pending) in my dreams !!

Well, it's the contention of Strassman, McKenna and others that the "heroic dose" does elicit this kind of "spiritual experience," and I've often said that if you don't like the word "spiritual" then this colossal transformation of consciousness, and by the way, this is not something one can addict to. The experience is far too powerful and unbearable, even.

It's not something that you're going to rush to try again once you've done it. You may never return to it, and if you do, it may take years before you decide to do it again. But this is definitely NOT a recreational dose that these people are referring to. I'll leave a link below of Terence McKenna describing a typical psychedelic experience, typical meaning that if you were to take up this endeavor, you, too, would have this experience.

The Shamanic Method of Using Psychedelics


Are they still going on about "visual acuity"?

Its like that God of the Gaps thing that the religious do isnt it.

The LSD experience IS something they can try for themselves. They could do that and then come back with some experience to talk about. But nahh - thats not what they really want - what they really want is a reason to discharge aggression. Thats the whole agenda behind this post from the beginning. A nasty set-up.

(They think we didnt notice that.)

These are the apes that didnt use mushies. Thats why they're still dragging the club around.

This thread is reminding me more and more of that Dawkins and Wendy Wright interview.

That no matter what Dawkins was saying to Wright - she had some kind of hidden agenda going on about her and she just would not listen. Then she tried to use scientific mistakes made in the Victorian era as proof that she was right.

Even when Dawkins said to Wright - "you can go to the Museum in Kenya to see for yourself - Wright immediantly turns deaf and changes the subject because the truth doesnt suit her.

Well - what are you going to do - youve got to ignore the belligerent types.



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