Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ronbun Kontan on May 31, 2011 at 3:19pm

Not really, though it upsets me that there were so many things I missed from the past. It's a stupid thought, I think it would have been fascinating to live eternally, witnessing all the events and how the world transpires around you.

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Permalink Reply by Sin on May 31, 2011 at 1:34pm

This is of course just my personal view, but I do not think that I am meaningless just because I am not the centre of the universe or that I am not the special friend of an omnipotent entity.
I live my life according to my own ideas of my purpose and happiness. I may not personally matter to the rest of the cosmos, and any intelligent species that may find our little corner of the galaxy in some distant future may not know or care about who I was and the life I led, but that does not mean I do not matter to those around me. To my friends I choose and the family I have built around me, and the society in which I live and participate in, and the world I will leave behind, I think can find all the meaning that I need.
I have never believed in God nor have I been a member of any religion. The roots of my unbelief has never been related to fear of hell if I should fail to adhere to a plethora of nonsensical injunctions, nor any degree of satisfaction that my position is significantly different to that of others in society. I simply never saw the point. Though the idea of death is not pleasant and loss of a loved one is unspeakably terrible, personally (and this is just my personal view and I know a lot of people would disagree) I feel that using the idea of an afterlife as consolation doesn't do myself or those I lost any favours. I feel it in fact cheapens everyone involved.
The biggest danger I percieve in believing in an afterlife (when insufficient evidence for it exists) is that such false beliefs can potentially cheapen what we have now. When we imagine that the epitiome of our life's meaning and the evidence of our value is that we are watched over by an invisible tyrant, if we imagine that the world now is but a pale reflection of what is on offer in next, we risk squandering the beauty of what we do have for the promise of its insubstantial shadow.
If we allow false promises to blind us to the wonders that can be found in this world, in the human condition, all that we have discovered and the vast oceans of all that is yet left for us to explore, whatever consolation to be offered by these false promises is not worth the price.
If I lose someone, I want to grieve for them and remember them for who they were and what they meant to me. I want to honor all that they had done for the world around them and the people they loved, their lives and their enduring memory. And when I die, I would want my legacy to be measured in the world I leave behind, in the life I had led and the people who love and remember me and whom I loved, and through them the people I had indirectly touched and the society of which I had been a part.
A sterile eternity seems pale compared to the promise of what could be.

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Permalink Reply by Ronbun Kontan on May 31, 2011 at 3:22pm

The thought that the afterlife cheapens that which we have right now has crossed my mind. And right now, I'm rather fixated on the reality and fear of death, especially when it's staring me right in the face. This is actually the first time I'm witnessing death and dying as it's happening, and I suppose when it's over I'll be able to look over it logically. But right now...it's quite an experience.

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Permalink Reply by AntiChristianLeague on May 31, 2011 at 10:12pm

That is so true. I think it was Epictetus who said something to the effect of "People are not disturbed by things, but by the views they take of them."

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Permalink Reply by Akshay Bist on June 1, 2011 at 9:18pm

I can't help feeling this terror of death is something that has been conditioned into us by the nature of Western civilisation.

Not true. Fear of death is present in other cultures too, cultures which are as old, if not older than western civilization(if you count the ancient Greeks as the start of western civilization). Even animals have a fear of death. Its natural.

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Permalink Reply by ☼ Doctor Reality ☼ on June 1, 2011 at 9:24pm

Fear of death keeps people alive...

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Permalink Reply by Akshay Bist on June 1, 2011 at 9:38pm

True. If anything, civilization has made man less afraid of death. Don't see many animal suicide bombers.

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Permalink Reply by Akshay Bist on June 2, 2011 at 2:54am

But is it really fear of death, or just fear?

Define just fear. According to wikipedia - 

Fear from the Greek: φόβος,phóbos, meaning "fear" or "morbid fear", is a distressing negative sensation induced by a perceived threat.

Here, the perceived threat would be death. So yeah, fear of death. Its primal

but again, it isn't a reality that we can experience.

Depends on your definition of death. In clinical terms, death is defined as cessation of blood circulation and breathing. People have been brought back from clinical death. A few comments below Judith describes her experiences with this. So there are people who are alive & have experienced death.

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Permalink Reply by Akshay Bist on June 2, 2011 at 6:12pm

What about the experience of the death of someone you knew & the effect it has on the people s/he knew? Maybe there was some unfinished business with someone, unfulfilled wishes. Such an experience would certainly color our view of death and make us form a list of things or conditions which we'd want taken care of before dying. Though it might turn out to be a never ending list(like good shows on TV on a good day), but certainly there would be some things more important than others & if you could knock off all the important ones, or even most of them, you would probably die happy or content.

Permalink Reply by Akshay Bist on June 2, 2011 at 2:40am

How do you know animals have a fear of death?  Have you asked them?

Sense of self preservation - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-preservation

And from the Psychology wiki - 

Self preservation is part of an organisms's instinct that demands that the organism survives. Pain and fear are parts of this mechanism. Pain causes discomfort so that the organism is inclined to stop the pain. Fear causes the organism to seek safety and may cause a release of adrenaline which has the effect of increased strength and heightened senses such as hearing, smell, and sight.

http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Self_preservation_in_animals

See, fear is a part of it.

I can assure you that it is 'true' that I can't help feeling what I said.

So?

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Permalink Reply by Akshay Bist on June 2, 2011 at 2:46pm

Oh.  Wikipedia.  How novel.

Would you prefer research papers Professor Czechen? *snark*

I suppose I shouldn't be too ungrateful, after all your links support  precisely the point that I am making: that neither human beings nor animals have any experience of being dead, therefore any fear of death is a wholly artificial construct, one that we can't be sure animals share with us.

Haven't you ever heard of anyone being resuscitated from being clinically dead?

but that does not mean animals understand what death is

Seriously, is rambling on this website all you can do? Internet search, ever heard of it or research even.

http://www.livescience.com/6335-chimps-understand-mourn-death-resea...

http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/mourning-howdo.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/health/02iht-02angi.15827535.html

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-playing-field/200911/do-dog...

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/2707596/Pictures-that...

And there if many more articles out there, you just have to look for them!

But no, you just like to state your views & then dismiss any evidence or reasoning that says otherwise.

Also, I think that its stupid to say that animals have no concept of death. However primitive it may be, they must have some understand death, otherwise how would they explain the dead members of their pack.

If apes can have enough self awareness to recognize their reflection in water or a mirror, then its not a huge stretch for animals to be aware of death.

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Permalink Reply by Bernard on June 12, 2011 at 10:57am

I personally don't fear death - I find the idea of eternal life truly terrifying though. Even living in heaven and bathing in bliss and godly love would become intolerable after a few million years. There would come a point when I would gladly leap naked into the burning sulphurous pit that sears but does not consume the flesh and endure all the torments of hell just for a change.

Truly awful - I enjoy the comfort of my atheism, which removes such terrible possibilties from my world view. I think our death is the one experience that we never have; the ultimate non event. We don't die - we only live. We occupy a time between two dates. That period of time and everything in it permanently exists - but once it is in our past we just can't see it anymore because of the way our brains our wired.

I think Einstein puts it well "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one."

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