By Eddie Miles


We everyday skeptics often come to a point in a debate at which the question is posed, "If God really loves your uncle who was in a motorcycle accident and wants him to get better, why did he cause him to have the accident in the first place?"

Now, there are a few different answers that we get for this question but this post is just about one: "God is testing his faith."
At first, this seems like an intellectual dead end, that theistic claim that kills the debate because it becomes a matter of faith over evidence and is therefore unarguable. Fortunately, it's not. The debate can continue from this point and here's how.
Think about the implications of a test. In school, your teacher probably administered many tests. He or she did this to find out how much of the subject matter you actually absorbed. Of course, the best way to do this is to read your mind directly but since a school teacher doesn't have this power, he/she resorts to the next best method: testing. In other words, a test is a way for a being who IS NOT OMNISCIENT to know what's in your mind. A being who IS omniscient would have no use for such tools as said being could directly read your mind to know what you're thinking and what you know or believe.

What this tells us about the test of faith hypothesis is that either god isn't omniscient or things like motorcycle accidents aren't "tests of faith" because an omniscient god would have no need for tests and a being who has a need for tests obviously isn't all-knowing.

 

Posted from www.theeverydayskeptic.com

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Maybe they have god-like ipods to drown out the noise? Filled with everything except christian rock?

The theist will say that redemptive suffering wins in the end.

 

Obviously the torture and crumpling of a child is a beautiful thing when they receive ETERNAL SALVATION WITH LORD AND CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE!!!

 

How could we all be so blind!?  God is a Loving God , and God's way is always perfect.

 

I love baby Jesus.

I had this discussion with my sister not to long ago. I had lots of complications in my pregnancy with my daughter. I told them I would not abort the child everything would be fine, and if at any time I felt my body could no longer handle it I would consider the abortion they were preaching at me about. Needless to say I had her, she is healthy and happy and perfect as far as I am concerned, she is 4 now.

My sister recently converted, she used my daughter as an example of a miracle. "Do you not know that if it were not by the grace of god you would not have Kaylee?"

I said excuse me? I don't recall god dealing with the pain, the pain meds they gave me stopped that, thanks to science that developed it. I certainly do not remember god being in my bed room the night that I conceived her. If so I want to report a rape right now, and on top of that, god certainly was not the one meditating, and eating healthy, and taking care of me, and helping me with my stress? I am pretty sure that was me, myself and I and the father of the child, who came home to clean the house, and cook , and run the three year old's energy off. SO there for It was me that took  care of me, Give me credit where credit is due.

So this test of faith continues, we get into some other health issues of others in the family, and I told her point blank.. "If this is god testing my faith, it lost it a long damn time ago, and continuing to test it sure the hell is not going to make me change my mind?" She hung up on me?

 

Where's the pancakes??

Are you sure God wasn't the one who impregnated you?  Hmmm ..

I am 99.9999999% certain it was my husband in the room with me. I suppose since this god can do all these other magical things he could turn into my husband and dooder with me.

 

Well done, Jennifer. You deserve a big plate of pancakes!! :)

Free will and omniscience are always things that the faithful almost always try to avoid when I've debated with them.
Either that or they're in such ridiculous denial that they'll shut off and ignore my questions and keep repeating that they have free will, despite my argument that we do not, if their god does indeed, exist.

I can come up with a perfect theological reasoning for this;

 

Theists will stop at saying God knows the decision you are going to make - but that doesn't stop you from making the decision.

 

For God to be perfectly all knowable - God would have to know the consequences of EVERY POSSIBLE DECISION each individual could make AT ANY TIME.

 

This would still allow one person to make a decision , without God ACTUALLY KNOWING that specific decision will be made.  God just knows the outcomes of EVERY POSSIBLE decision.

 

It's so funny that atheists can come up with better and more (rational) explanations for theists own theology.

I think the "God is testing our faith" argument is usually used as a debate ender. It tacitly acknowledges that there is no logical comeback and is the rhetorical equivalent of sticking fingers in your ears and yelling "nyah-nyah-yah, i'm not listening"

Paul, you are too funny! I can just picture it especially because some of them seem to have the emotional stability of 2 year olds anyway. :)

Think about the implications of a test. In school, your teacher probably administered many tests. He or she did this to find out how much of the subject matter you actually absorbed. Of course, the best way to do this is to read your mind directly but since a school teacher doesn't have this power, he/she resorts to the next best method: testing. In other words, a test is a way for a being who IS NOT OMNISCIENT to know what's in your mind. A being who IS omniscient would have no use for such tools as said being could directly read your mind to know what you're thinking and what you know or believe.

 

I give you 5 stars for that!  I'll so be using that in the future!  It totally ruins the nobility of Abraham wielding the knife above Isaac's throat (not that any intelligent person finds it noble to begin with, but of course we all know some people who do.)

 

Excellent.

Oh, thanks ever so much for reminding me of the stupid Abraham tale.  grrr... ;) This is one particular bible tale that has always (even as a child) irritated the crap out of me.  I thought it was cruel the first time I heard it and words just can't describe how it makes me feel as a thinking adult with children of my own. Oh, wait a minute, I know....It makes my stomach churn and reaffirms my belief that if there were a god, he's a real asshole. ;)

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