According to the entheogen theory of religion: religion is essentially rooted in the experience of intense psychedelic tripping, the world religions consist of collections of stories which serve as metaphorical descriptions of psychedelic experiences (in particular the experience of mystical death and rebirth/ressurection/transformation).

This theory fits with the scientific evidence that entheogenic drugs trigger mystical/religious type experiences when they are administered in an appropriately conducive setting (the recent Johns Hopkins psilocybin study concluded this).

It would be interesting to get the atheist take on this theory, the issue here isnt religious beliefs (such as the belief in God) but rather religious/mystical/transcendent experiences of the kind that people commonly experience under the influence of entheogenic/psychedelic substances.

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I hear some people that are going through a diabetic shock or is it low sugar, can appear to be drunk

Overdosing on normal tape water is also almost identical to being drunk .


I've seen that happen Warren -

He was almost about to collapse and nobody helped him - maybe they thought he was drunk. 

it was only that he almost fell on me when I was coming out from work and I asked him if he was ok and he said - do you have some honey. It was amazing how quickly that teaspoon of honey restored him.

That was my first experience with diabetes.

Entheogens never cause hallucinations, the term 'hallucinogen' is misleading insofar as it implies that the effect of the drug is to induce hallucinations.

It is more accurate to say that entheogens reveal illusory aspects of ordinary sober perception

And the specific difference between an illusion and a hallucination that's applicable here is... ?

the relevant distinction is the difference between the ordinary state of consciousness versus the altered state of consciousness.

Unseen: And the specific difference between an illusion and a hallucination that's applicable here is... ?

John Burrows: the relevant distinction is the difference between the ordinary state of consciousness versus the altered state of consciousness.

Thanks for clarifying the specific difference.

But isn't it the ordinary, normal state of consciousness to be constantly altered?j When I walk down the street or watch a movie don't those activities change my consciousness? Even closing my eyes and pondering something alters my consciousness

That understood, what is an un-altered state of consciousness?

Ermmm Am I getting this wrong? Is this or is it not a discussion forum?

What does a discussion look like if not what's happening here?

Since the psychedelic activity is still electrical brain impulses, more similar to a very complex computer, I can see no reason to think that the thing would be limited to 'n' deminsions, as far as computations go.

During some attempts at AI computing(neural networks), I have used 10 and higher measures/variables/deminsions as training data. The computer does not care! It is just looking for patterns in the data set via a very large number of weights to decribe vectors with 10 or higher number of measures.The 'measures' could be considered 'addresses' on a complex manifold that decribes the data. Imagine a piece of paper/rubber that had warps or folds in the surface, very much like a landscape. On that landscape there could be mountions, valleys, pits, and other complex structures. Sadly these details are in 10 or higher deminsions and can not be 'seen' my our minds easily, if at all. Could the mind, with help, 'walk' something like a very complex abstract structure, or take slices of this structure and 'walk' through to explore it?     

I think in the book/movie 'DUNE', the mutated pilots could be considered to be doing just that, to find a path through space with the shortest distance, sadly it is SF/fantasy. I would not be willing to screw my mind up very badly to try...

I remain unclear on the "so what if it's true" aspect.



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