This character in Christian mythology has a bad rap. It so foolish that grown men and women believe and fear the devil. Facepalm. Despite the fiction, I’ve been thinking recently…..
Is/was the devil such a bad guy? I mean by our (atheist) standards. I know we have plenty of biblical experts among us – so I ask you - Besides tempting Jesus to turn away from god (we would’ve done the same thing), did the devil actually perform any unsavory acts that we (atheist) would deem bad/ unethical/ immoral/ objectionable?
Did he ever kill anyone? Cheat anyone? Did he ever plague a community? Or -Did he ever influence humans to perform bad acts (kill, steal, cheat etc.)? Beside his opposition to god, what’s he done that so bad? If anything, we know the God of Abraham is guilty of countless human atrocities. What about the devil?
I mean, maybe he has done some bad stuff – I don’t know – I haven’t gone through the bible with a fine tooth comb. Would you mine drinking a beer with this guy?
(note – biased devil worshipers need not respond :)
Right. Like most of us- He is an anti-theist. Even if Christianity were true- most of us would remain anti-theist.
I think he means if god exist, he would oppose his/her ruling over mankind.
would you form a resistence if it trund out to be true
Shoot I would have three or more with him. I think the devil concept gets a bad rap catching blame for the ills of the world.
The following is where I found the links for this information:
I wound, I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh.
Also, not forgetting he killed his son - Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins - Deuteronomy 32:39-42
Number of people killed by god = Total with estimates: 25 million.
Number of people killed by Satan = 10 - Well I can only find ten, and even these he shares with God, since God allowed him to do it as a part of a bet. I'm talking about the seven sons and three daughters of Job.
Wikipedia estimates the human population in the third millineum BCE to be around 30 million.
Drunk with Blood: God's killings in the Bible By Steve Wells, the creator of the SAB and Dwindling in Unbelief.
I love SAB. Thank You Steve Wells! Havent read Drunk with Blood yet. Hope to soon.
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins" (1 John 4:9, 10) sorry, it's not in deutreonomy
satan is the greek word meaning adversary, his name in the bible is Lucifer, which means 'light bearer'. calling him satan is not an accurate use of that word as jesus referred to Peter as satan as well, and we know he wasn't meaning the 'devil'
hell is a new testament concept based on mostly john's drugged induced writings on patmos and a few vague references jesus 'made' to 'gehenna' which referred more to the burning pile of garbage outside of the city of jerusalem than it did to any specific place!
lucifer is given many god-like qualities as many believe he is everywhere, all-knowing, and almost as powerful as god himself, which of course he couldn't be or there would be more than one/3 god's in the stratus of heaven.
just a clarification! good points though.... god really didn't like the creation he made at all as he spent so much time killing people he allegedly made, for his pleasure don't forget
james d - I know you and discussed Lucifer on another thread, as being the "Light Bearer," based on the Latin, lux, "light," and ferrer, "to bring".
I suspect he may have been borrowed from a long-forgotten myth and correspond to the Greek demi-god, Prometheus, who reputedly brought Humans fire, and who, since with gods, no good deed goes unpunished, was chained to a rock, where each day, vultures would rip out his innards, which would grow back overnight, to be ready for the ext day's funfest.
In the bronze age, Egypt and Mesopotamia took turns fighting and trading with each other. In the process, much information was exchanged. Mesopotamia was divided, originally at least, between the Sumerians on the south and the Semitic Akkadians on the north, but again, due to battle and trading, their cultures gradually merged. The Sumerian word for "Lord" was "En," while the Akkadian word was "El" - Egypt worshiped the god Osiris and his sister/wife, Isis, the two had an evil brother named, Set - ultimately, "Lord," in the Sumerian was combined with the Egyptian Set to become Set-en, or "Lord Set."
Not much of a stretch to see how Satan was derived from that combination. When the Hebrews emigrated from Egypt during the XIX Dynasty, they took a caricature of Set with them.
Actually, Satan is absolutely necessary - god couldn't do without him. Who would watch a TV show where nothing happened? Without a bad guy, there's no conflict.
By last count, 13 million "Satanists" had been killed, most after the most horrendous of tortures, by the angelic religious of Europe during the medieval and Renaissance times.
Footnote to my comment above - the Egyptian god, Osiris, and his sister/wife, Isis, had a son, Horus - evil Uncle Set transformed into a snake and bit young Horus, so the Set-en (sometimes, Set-hen)/snake connection was born.
It doesn't take much for one culture to originate a piece of folklore and through contact, another culture picks it up, develops it further, and makes it its own. Ideas were passed around like that throughout early civilization.
Arch.. Are you saying that Horus was set-upon by Set..?
Not only Horus, Set chopped Horus' daddy, Osiris, into little pieces, but Osiris' sister/wife hunted them all up and, even without the aid of all the king's horses and all the king's men, managed to put him back together again.