In the ask Dr. Bob thread, there was much academic discussion of damage caused by pedophilia. I thought I should give an additional viewpoint.
There is a man, let's call him Phyllis, who had four children with his wife and then they had an ugly divorce. In the settlement, she got full custody of the kids and Phyllis had them for a weekend twice a month, and two weeks in the summer. Phyllis had a job as an over the road truck driver and made a good buck, so he kept up with the child support. I married Phyllis' ex-wife six years after they split up.
He also took the kids to Catholic church in the small town he lived in every time he had them and was very active in his church. He moved in with his mom after the divorce and kept seeing the "other woman", let's call her Zelda, who inspired the divorce in the first place. She had 3 kids of her own. Phyllis and Zelda were dating for 8 years, and finally decided to get a house together.
About 2 months after they moved in together, on Dec. 23rd, Phyllis stayed home, and Zelda's 10 year old daughter had the day off of school. It turned out that this was the first time he was alone with any 10 year old girl in many years and he convinced the little girl to pose for some pictures--sans clothing.
A couple hours later, she told my 15 year old stepdaughter (Phyllis' biological daughter) what had happened in an emotional state, crying and asking if she had done something wrong.
When my wife and I were told of it, we immediately called Zelda, the grandparents (Zelda's mom and dad). We let Phyllis know that we knew what had happened, and since he did not turn himself in after 2 days, I went to the small town he lives in and reported him to the police.
By the time they went to investigate, there were no images on the camera he used, and they eventually dropped the case because it was the little girls word against his, and he denied it. About 2 years later, Phyllis and Zelda were married, and the poor little girl was forced to live in the house of the man who did this to her.
All of this was around 8 years ago. The little girl moved out right after her 18th birthday and just had her first child with her boyfriend. My stepkids didn't see their father for about 3 years, but eventually could not keep themselves from him and the oldest boy now lives with him. The other three mostly keep their distance. Phyllis' actions ruined at least 15 lives in many different and disparate ways, and Zelda's looking the other way only made it worse.
I'm not going back into my old research on pedophiles, but here is some of what I learned:
Writing this post was difficult, I have never put it in writing like this before. I am sitting here crying right now. The story is unfortunately true, and the bullet points are important to anyone who works with kids, or needs information on pedophilia.
Phyllis was very tight with his church, and I believe he went to counselling with them after the incident. I am quite sure that his priest knows whats up and that Phyllis has been absolved of his sins. But in a twist that seems like it should be fiction, I just found out from my stepson that Phyllis retired from truck driving, and is now the janitor of the high school in the small town he lives in. If it weren't for my 3rd point above, I would have went back down to that town and fucked up his life.
I am also divorced from the mom (about 5 years now), although I am no longer officially anything to my stepchildren, I treat them as if they are my own. They are all grown, all of them were seriously affected by this incident, and there are effects to this day.
Bob gave you the right advice, and just having it on the record is a help. If the police in Cleveland had someone like you mentioning this type of information, those three girls Ariel Castro kidnapped might have gotten out earlier.
Creepy guys can be innocuous or insidious, in general, you will have no way to tell the difference between them given the type of information you might ever have available to you.
We train our daughters to treat anyone who makes them feel uncomfortable as if they are a threat. It is just safer that way.
Regarding your question about infants, Strega mentioned something in the Ask Dr. Bob thread. I wouldn't know how to find it now though.
I've sought advice from officials before. Still, thank you for your advice. It's a very frustrating situation because, basically he's not considered an immanent threat to any child (there are no babies in his family now and he does not work with children) and there is no evidence of what I suspect he had been doing. They recommended that I discreetly warn any adults who care for young children he may come in contact with not to leave their children with him alone. It was not recommended that I try to catch him in the act but how else would he be stopped... Thanks for the warning about unintentionally creating child porn. That was news. I had already decided that I would warn people and if I saw him going away with a baby, I would follow him to make sure he didn't do anything. I don't think I could just watch him leave with a baby and not try to intervene.
Kairan, what on earth is this man doing carting babies around? What is his kind of job?
He's not carting babies around. He comes into contact to with babies while socializing.
I don't come into contact with babies whilst socialising - is this a mystery or can you explain?
Thank you Melvinotis for starting this thread - I was chasing the lovley Bob around, as he wouldn't answer queston - Did the lovley Bob comment on Archy's links at all about how pedophilia affects victims? I may have missed it.
In Australia, information of pedophile priests is much more forthcoming - There is an enquiry in Australia at the moment, complete with Victim Statements, Which is why this is all so raw to me.
The following is just one group chasing down these vermin - naturally a secular group.
The victims that I know that give me the most heartache and pain personally were not church-related abuse.
There he goes again, again, again. Catholic on Atheist site -
Stick to your religion, your church, your pedophile priests that raped and sodomised, then to be covered up. Even after you, supposedly had these experiences with victims of pedophiles, you still asked the question, Why do Atheists think pedophilia is wrong - Breath Taking Hypocrisy.
The reason these criminals have got away with it for so long, is people just like you, Bob, to make excuses.
Question Bob - Which I have asked before - no answer - What other business can rape and pillage, ruin thousands of childrens lives - destroy douments concerned with these rapes, and get away with it over decades?
The following is a statement from Germaine Grisez - a catholic moral theologian.
Do you Bob, see anything wrong with the following statement - that is if you have enough courage to answer at all.
Their guilt may well have been venial and may even have been none at all — only God knows — and their cooperation in no way mitigates their seducers’ guilt. Indeed, seducing the victims into sexual sins was far graver than the clerics’ own sexual sinning.
This is what good catholics are up against - the lying, and obfuscating of fact - but they are still trying to clean out these vermin.
@Unseen - Priests didn't have to kill victims - they were not to be believed anyway - who would believe a child could be raped by that lovely man. He is so sweet, he takes kids on holidays, he buys them presents - kids just weren't believed.
But now they are - that is the big change.
@Melvinotis - The priests lifestyle is brilliant - and the best way to cover up pedophilia.
Then moved to another country, and have another fresh batch of kids - how cool is that.
And yet, we see that pedophiles (perhaps less so if they are priests) DO kill their victims in order to keep them silent. It is not because they have to (your words) but because of what they fear might happen, which is a different matter.
@Bob - LOL. You must have every anti-Catholic conspiracy blog in your bookmarks, @Suzanne - not at all - there are many catholics here, who are appalled by the behavior of your church and are doing something about it - like the Commission into Pedophilia in the Catholic Church. It is on the news, including Victim Statements, most nights.
I and all the rest of us Catholics yield to your moral superiority - No, Bob, you are a patronizing apologists. Not all catholics behave the way you do - they are appalled at what the church is doing to their religion, and doing something about it - that is the difference.
No other business in the world has ever harmed children or families - Name a business, with a company in christian countries, that can Commit Crimes Against Humanity - then get protected by hiding behind the 'Goodness' of the cross, by shredding documents, by calling children and their families 'Liars', 'You are Mistaken', 'They just have a vivdi imagination', 'They Enjoyed it'.
We all live for those special moments when we can oppress women and molest children.
Don't include the good catholics, Bob, your bible and the catholic church think women should be subservient, and answer to the 'husband', and the catholic church wonders why people are leaving. Catholic men think this is abhorrent. Molesting children - Many of your brethren did rape children, but the light is shining on the predators, and if it hadn't been for people actually listening to these children, these vermin would have been still raping children.
because we Catholics doctored the evidence! - Evidence, if there was any taken, as children and parents were ignored, was shredded.
@Bob - Did you read Archy's links? Did you read the poem? Multiply that pain by thousands of children all over the world, and these cretins are now moving into third world countries, and it will start all over again.
Off-topic: I don't think of the Catholic Church as a company but rather as the world's oldest government. The "adherents" are just being very patriotic - in a scary way. After all, they will put their patriotism towards the Church before the country they live in.
@Ward - I think there are men in the vatican who wield a lot of power - I have seen archbishops here in Australia, who built apartments at the vatican - at their cost - of $23 million - there lifestyle is amazing, for a religion that is supposedly looking after it's flock, of which a large proportion are very poor. The power they yield over millions of people, who are uneducated and superstitious, is extraordinary, but it is power. Why hide how much money is in the vatican bank, if there is nothing to hide. Oh, yes, it is a business.
My friend Bob, says the reason is, that no bank publicly exposes how much money they have, and how much profit they make, which is blatantly untrue. The banks in Australia every three months, say how much profit they are making. One vatican banker committed suicide, or was he murdered. Why.
The vatican bank is under investigation for having mafia connections and money laundering. Not a good look for the catholic religion.
The bank is named Institute for Religious Works - it's turning out to be not quite so religious.
Then there is celibacy - the church wanted to keep it's property intact, not wanting a priests children to inherit - which is a furphy - the property belongs to the church, no inheritance - so for that reason, they decree celibacy is in - and it is bad for business, no matter how one looks at it. The number of priests now going into the church is dwindling, they want to have a family, a normal life, and that is not allowed for reason of property. Daft.
The church relies on people like Bob, to prop up and become apologists for the church, the church relies on all these faithful people, the naive and the innocent.
The numbers of catholics in western countries are dwindling at a fast rate, they have no trust in the catholic church.
The men at the vatican now exactly what they are doing - but if it doesn't change the celibacy rules, which I think will happen in the next twenty years, their problems with women in the hierarchy, their problem with Gays marrying, the catholic religion will implode.
Educated catholics ignore the teachings of the church, contraception, gay marriage, women in the hierarchy, it is the grass root society that will change the church, 'cause if the church doesn't change, they will go the way of the dinosaur.
Well, AFAIK the people of South and Central America are largely Catholic and don't question it much at all. I think they will help support it for at least 15-20 years but, yes, the Church will need to make changes to survive. I suspect they will but very slowly and with much obfuscation.
As for the business or government thing - not really arguing it - just causal about it. I realized I don't see it as a business because I don't see many of today's corporate organizations as businesses. I grew up with a business being something that employed people and sold a product or offered a service. Today's corporate organizations use people and sell ideas (of a product or of a service) all to drain money from hard working people to siphon it off to parasites (rich people).
But even growing up governments were always a bit questionable. So, I think of the Church more as a government but it does very much match the paradigm of today's corporate organizations.