This is a basic idea I think is coherent, and I’m going to try and see if I can structure it properly.

1. If God exists, God created the universe

2. It is selfish to perform an action with consequences that are worse for others than yourself, especially if the doer of this action is aware of this.

3. The act of creation had worse consequences for beings other than God, and God was aware of this.

4. Therefore, God performed a selfish action when he created the universe.

Premise #1 is an assertion that I think most people will accept. If God is defined as Omnipotent.

#2 is based on a fairly straightforward definition of selfishness as being motivated by pure self-interest. Theists often describe God as creating humans to have someone to experience a personal relationship with (in short, God was lonely and wanted some company).

#3 is, in short, based on the problem of Evil, mainly the problem of Natural Evil and Suffering, as well as the Problem of Hell. The Bible makes it clear that the majority of people throughout all of time will end up in Hell; couple that with Omniscience to complete the premise. God was aware of all the horrible things in the Bible he would eventually command, of the chaotic, brutal mess that is Evolution, of Natural disasters and how many people would end up in Hell, and he decided to create anyway.

From this, God saw all the horrors he would directly and/or indirectly be responsible for, and did it anyway.

WHAT'S THE POINT?

The conclusion, if valid, simply stands. It attempts to point out a conflict between the supposed qualities God is said to possess, and which qualities he can be observed to possess. It's up to the theist to decide if they're okay with it. It really isn't my problem.

OBJECTIONS?

Appeals to God's will and ends being unknowable are highly suspect at best. How do you tell the difference between a God merely claimed to be Good (and thus possessing the intrinsic qualities of love, kindness, compassion, mercy etc.), but not actually showing it in practice, and there simply not being such an entity, or a God with reverse qualities (cruelty, callousness, ruthlessness etc.)?

Appeals to The Fall or Original Sin are only partially effective, assuming we grant that's even fair. The long process of evolution still leaves plenty of undeserved suffering being experienced by God's creations, by his own hand, before there were any humans around on Earth to sin against God.

The Crucifixion is not comparable to the ultimate issue of eternal torment in Hell. Whatever Jesus endured on the cross cannot be comparable, since you cannot compress an infinite amount of suffering into a finite moment in time. Even if you could, that would just cancel the problem out, not solve it. God would have to go beyond infinite suffering to actually be selfless, and that's even less coherent.

So, does this hold up? What can be done with it?

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Sorry...you are forgetting the fact that an eternity of groveling to God and praising him will be such ecstacy..it will make up for all the horror God put us through on Earth...so in the end it is all good. Bit you might say....what about hell? Well...hell is just an absence of God...say Christians who are too uncomfortable to believe the underground torture chamber is really as grotesque as the bible explicitly and unambiguously describes countless times. So...the afterlife will not be that bad...cause its just a mediocre eternity...not one with screaming and blood curdling agony. And besides...how dare you question Gods perfect knowledge of what is good. Only he can truly understand what is best for us.

Too many assumptions with no evidence to support them.

For example, the assumption that if there is "a god" then, he created the universe.

I'd postulate that if there IS "a god", that, as there is no credible evidence of its existence, that its properties, or acts, are not known.

IE: As there is no evidence that the universe was "created", there is no need to assume a "Creat-er", so, assuming a property of god is universe creation is unfounded.  Even if the universe WAS "created", there is no evidence of the responsible party being "god", or, a particular god, etc.

As for the other superlatives, there is also zero evidence that they are applicable either.  

Essentially, ALL of the attributes/properties attributed to "god" are exactly like those of a fictional character.

The character might be different in different versions of its stories...with the comic book batman, mighty mouse and superman having different personalities and strength/weaknesses, etc, than their 1960's or 2000's TV or movie versions.

The earliest Judaeo-Christian god makes mistakes, bumbles along, is jealous, angry, apologizes when wrong sometimes, is fooled by the devil, and. loses battles....hardly the perfect in every way the same god, but claimed later, is portrayed.

How does one claim the same god who went from wanting ONE immortal, dumb naked Adam, and demanding the Angels bow down to, not know he would not want a companion, or a goat as a companion, then finding out, when TOLD, and THEN making a woman, and THEN changing the plan from one dumb naked immortal Adam to them being fruitful and multiplying, still dumb naked and immortal?

How is this SAME god, also supposed to have had a plan for every human, let alone every atom or quark, etc, before they were even born?

Simple, the writers changed the character to please their audiences....just as the campy 1960's batman was lighter and funnier than the dark brooding earlier comic book version of himself.

And so forth.

:D

1. If God exists, God created the universe

I reject this premise... we have no reason to assume that just because both God and the universe exist, that one created the other.

2. It is selfish to perform an action with consequences that are worse for others than yourself, especially if the doer of this action is aware of this.

I'd say only if the doer is aware of it. I don't think someone can be selfish if they don't realise that their action will harm others.

3. The act of creation had worse consequences for beings other than God, and God was aware of this.

This assumes that non-existance is better than existance for those who are suffering. If this is the case, we should immediately kill everyone who is suffering. (Do I need to say I reject this premise also?)

4. Therefore, God performed a selfish action when he created the universe.

Aside from the rejected premises, yes.

Premise #1 is an assertion that I think most people will accept. If God is defined as Omnipotent.

Even if God is omnipotent, there's no reason to assume he created the universe. It could of come into being on it's own, or been created by a different god.

I think I understand the point of the argument... It's to show that god is selfish, right? I would try rewriting it to include assumptions negating my objections to the premises:

Assumption 1: God exists

Assumption 2: God created the universe to provide entertainment/company for himself

Assumption 3: God is omniscient

Assumption 4: Non-existence is preferable to existence in at least one case

Premise 1: It is selfish to knowingly perform an action resulting in adverse effects to others and positive effects for yourself

Premise 2: In the act of creation (Assumption 2), god knowingly (Assumption 3) brought into being at least one thing which would of preferred not to exist (Assumption 4)

Conclusion: God is selfish

Character assassination complete. Unfortunately, you may have a hard time convincing people that Assumption 4 is true.

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