Testing the waters—and the waters aren’t good.

Testing the waters—and the waters aren’t good.

I thought I might come out as atheist to my friend a couple weeks ago, when we went on a camping trip. I decided against that, but did test the waters a bit, talking about creation and evolution. It did not go well.

I’d really like to come out to my family, and some of my close friends. I’m getting sick of hiding. I feel like I’m continually forcing myself into a shell (it really is like being in a closet, isn’t it?) and refusing to let myself speak out because they might find out what I think.

This is one of the very few friends I have. He invited me along on this camping trip, whereas I wouldn’t have gotten to go camping anywhere, at all, otherwise. This friend, it turns out, is also a creationist and proud of it. He thought I was, too, because I used to be.

He told me how he stood up for “the faith” on Facebook not so long ago. Someone had made fun of that creationist/dinosaur quiz that was making the rounds. My friend jumped in and told this kid off. He told him about how you need to look at all the evidence, and the evidence supports creation. He told me how proud he was of being able to out-argue this kid.

He said that whenever he talks with evolutionists, they don’t argue on the scientific facts, because they know they will lose; instead they talk about theology and attack my friend’s faith in God.

He was telling me about how important it is for us Christians to stand up for Christ, when finally I told him I do think the earth is millions of years old, not 6,000 years, and that evidence is pretty clear about gradual change of one form into another.

And wouldn’t you know it, he stopped talking about scientific facts, and immediately wanted to discuss theology and faith.

It was harder than I thought to admit to him I believed in an Old Earth. My original plan was to come all the way out and tell him I was an atheist too. But in that instant when I told him I wasn’t creationist, I heard confusion and a hint of accusation in his voice, and I choked. I wondered what would happen if I admitted something so earth-shattering right before we were going to be stuck together in the wilderness for four days.

So I didn’t go there. I reassured him that I believe in God…though not very convincingly now that I think of it.

I talked about facts. I told him about tiktaalic and about the fossilized footprints in tilted rock layers I saw when on vacation in Colorado—the layers wouldn’t have time to fossilize and tilt without millions of years.

He asked me what kind of unthinkable energy would it take to compress the universe into a big bang? I said, “So much energy that even 4 billion years later we can still see a little of the residual heat when we look out into the emptiness of space.”

He said, but where does everything come from? Matter isn’t just being created all the time. I told him how fusion within stars creates the heavier elements, and then spits them out into the universe again.

We got to the lake, with water so clear you could see 30 feet down, loons cackling back and forth to themselves, wide open blue sky and no visible pollution at all—and he said, “Look at all this! It’s beautiful!” Meaning that it couldn’t possibly exist without God. Even though I said nothing at all about if God exists or not.

He said he’s not comfortable with evolution because, quite frankly, he thinks evolution makes it too easy to not believe in God. He said atheists talk about evolution all the time as proof there’s no creator, and “Somewhere I have to draw a line in the sand for my faith.”

Another friend was along part of the time, a Christian who does believe in evolution. This friend bailed me out by providing theological arguments why God may have used evolution as part of his creative process.

So I made this tiny step, and it has made me afraid to go any further. I thought about sending him the answer to some of the science questions he had, that I couldn’t answer without research…but instead I just stayed quiet. We haven’t talked about it since then.

I want to tell him the truth, because I want to tell somebody. I want people to be friends with the real me, not with this fake me I put on to impress them. But from his reaction it makes me wonder how he would see me if he knew I was a dreaded atheist.

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I also recall he had a long essay explaining why the U.S. government was obviously responsible for 9/11. Don't know whether he kept that little tidbit up.

If essayists want readers to believe the U.S. government was responsible for 9/11, they need to link the attacks to America's Middle Eastern foreign policy since WW2.

Link the two and it becomes obvious that the 9/11 attacks are payback.

That foreign policy gave a lot of money to tyrants if they were sufficiently anti-communist. Those tyrants brutalized their people and stirred up a lot of hatred for America.

Kent Hovind won't take on the American government.

I thought that was why he ended up in jail for tax fraud? He thought God's law was greater than American law or something.

Do you think its possible to have a friendship with him without ever having to talk about metaphysics/religion?

Do you think its possible to have a friendship with him after truly revealing to him your feelings on religion?

Do you think there are other avenues to making and keeping friendships that you haven't yet explored or tried?

yeah, i'm the most antisocial prick on the planet. At least I like telling myself that for having the personality of a rock in social situations.

Consequently I keep very few friends but have a ton of aquaintences. Friends? Can count them on one hand. The one's that do still want to keep me as a friend love me, warts and all. They give less than crap about my beliefs or, in my case, non-belief. At least they never seem to get too worked up about it when I'm around.

Not too many of us, when you put it into perspective, and think about the lovers of Krishna, Buddah, Christ, Allah, Zeus, Odin, Darkseid, and Magog (I know, I know; a couple of those were comic book SuperHero Characters but since we're talking fantasy what the heck.) Being an atheist means picking your battles. Especially if you live in an area where, to quote an old friend, and practioner of Islam, "I'll kill for my religion". They are that devoted. Unless you're of the mind to "give me liberty or give me death" and are willing to take your chances and say, "damn it all to hell"... and gamble on the cap to the cerebreal cortex. But we're rational now. Now that we no longer have to defend a faith to the death. We can passively walk away and let them waste their lives believing in fairies and pixie dust. We can choose to not engage cause we've removed the veil. We see clearly now. And we giggle. Man do we giggle. We giggle our ass's off at the absurdity of living with dinosaurs, talking snakes, parting of the sea's, walking on water. But just not in front of them cause we got class.

Hey kiddo, find new friends. You found us internet people on this site. You can find new friends. Take it from the most antisocial son of a bitch on the planet....

Good luck.

I was a creationist as well.  I was raised that way.  Then I reached the age of reason.  Since then I have learned some harsh lessons about dealing with religious people.

I've found it totally pointless to discuss facts of science with entrenched theists because their mental training has left them incapable of accepting any fact that doesn't fit into their ridiculous perception of reality.  They believe in things not based in truth so it stands to reason the truth is difficult for them to grasp.  They'll spend an hour trying to convince you that evolution says men came from apes, and never be able to wrap their brains around the words 'common ancestor to apes.'

If you want to piss them off start reading the history of christianity so you can take away all their toys and watch them go into temper tantrums.


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