Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Alex Johnson on October 21, 2011 at 11:50am

Dont mind what Sassan says. He might not support the protests in his own country too. However, we all can have our own individual opinions. Maybe the UN and US are blind when they criticise the government in Syria. Maybe the media is fooling us all. What matters most is, what evidence one has to support either sides. Now I or many of us here might not know as much about Syria as you would. If one tries, it will still take a lot of time to gather the information to answer your questions. Why not tell us what are your answers for the above questions and provide unbiased sources to support them? One can then look at the evidence and determine if your support for the Syrian government is justified.   

 

It would also be great if you can explain why hundreds of deaths and people fleeing into Turkey is being reported, the credit for which is given to the government actions.

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Permalink Reply by Cesar on October 21, 2011 at 4:40pm

I second this

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Permalink Reply by Hany on October 21, 2011 at 9:50pm

Hey Alex,

This is the first fair response I get since a very long time :)

I will respond to your last question now, and explain my point of view in a different post later tomorrow.

 

Total death reported so far is: 3000

Total death reported in Army and Police: 1800

Total death reported from so-called "Civilians": 1200

 

From the above we can see, what kind of civilians are the 1200... and what kind of protests these are.

I am sure you have seen people fleeing to Turkey, but didn't hear about them coming back the next week... and didn't hear about their stories from the week they stayed in Turkey refugees camps.

 

Syrian authorities reported 700 out of 10,000 people who were in Turkey's camps as terrorists.. and those 700 are the remaining in the camps right now.

 

The image that everyone has about Syrian regime is really fucked up because Syria is not a good friend of Israel & Zionists... and Zionism controls the global media. (This is not a conspiracy theory... this is a FACT, and I can provide evidences)

 

I am sure you all have seen protests in Syria, but did you see the huge masses rallying in support of AlAssad? have you seen the rallies in support of the reform package the regime has planned? (see attached) over 3 million people in the rallies (attached)

 

 

Bottom line: Armed Insurrection is never accepted, neither in the states nor in Syria, not even Libya... (which has returned to be colonized... but now by France, UK and US)

 

to be continued :)

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Permalink Reply by Sassan K. on October 22, 2011 at 11:22am

IT's funny you accept the numbers and stories given by Assad's terrorist regime.

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Permalink Reply by Hany on October 23, 2011 at 11:10pm

:) it's funnier that you still assume that the regime is a terrorist regime while you have no evidences what so ever.

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Permalink Reply by Kemal on October 26, 2011 at 6:14pm

C'mon man, not even the regime itself claims it lost 1800.  And don't you think it's quite callous to put civilians in quotes?  You know very well that most of those killed were civilians and you know that your regime implements a shoot-to-kill policy on demonstrators (unless they're pro-regime of course).  As one of the other posters said, if the regime is so innocent it would let the media in the country.  As for Zionists, ever since the protests started, the Israeli lobby in DC has been one of the regime's biggest supporters.  And it's brutal thuggish regimes like the ones in Syria and Libya that create armed insurrections with their completely disproportionate reactions to protests.

 

It's really sad to see Syrians who justify this kind of dictatorship.  Syria was once a true democracy with free elections and a full spectrum of political parties.  They had a constitution more tolerant and civil than any Arab country past or present.  Syrians were so tolerant that people from a sect that was only 10% of the population was able to gain so much power that they could stage a coup and take over the country and now they won't let go even if it means killing every last Syrian.

 

I don't judge Syrians who are not protesting or who don't support the protests.  Heck, if I was in their position I would probably want stability too.  But that doesn't mean you should be more royal than the king or that you should condone the barbarity of the regime.  For god's sake the regime imprisoned a high school student just for writing some blog before any protests even started (and she's still in prison today)!  I'm sorry to say this, but you come off sounding like a shill with no nuance whatsoever.  If I were in your position, I'd at least stay silent because the regime doesn't need people like me to shill for it.

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Permalink Reply by Hany on October 30, 2011 at 8:12am

Hey Kemal,

What I can assure you here, that no unarmed civilian has been killed. this can't be proved as much as your claims can't be proved... except that I live on the ground while you follow whatever the media say.

 

Can you please provide a trustworthy source for the zionism support for the regime? and when I say trustworthy, I don't mean a newspaper article that represents the editors opinion.

 

I again want to raise one point, I don't agree with everything the regime does... but I do with most of it... and I don't support al-Baath forever... A change could be good but definitely not through armed insurrections... and not now.

 

When the protests started in Daraa, the government offered a very good reform package... but we protesters are going into a different stage of expressing their opinions... Murders, robberies, assassinations... and I definitely do not want those murderers to rule.

 

It is true, that Syria was a true democracy back in the 50s & 60s, but what was the outcome? a coup every other day. Syria has literally seen presidents for one day... not one president... many.

in 12 years between 1946-1958 -> 10 presidents

in 9 years between 1961-1970 -> 7 presidents 

 

Coming toward the delay of reforms...

• 2000 President Bashar Al-Assad came in power
• 2001 DWTC hit 9/11 where Syria was listed by the Genius as Axis of Evil (Embargo and Sanctions)
• 2003 Iraq War
• 2003 - 2006 over 2.1 million Iraqi came into Syria (around 1.5m still reside in Syria)
• 2005 Assassination of Rafiq Alhariri
• 2006 Israel's war on Lebanon
• 2007 Israel's airstrike on an allegedly suspected nuclear site in Syria
• 2008 US Airstrike in al-Boukamal & Lebanon Conflict
• 2009 Gaza war and siege
• 2011 Arab Spring - Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Yemen, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia
• 2011 Q2 - protests in Daraa, Banyas
• 2011 Q3 - armed insurrections in many areas and the re-rise of muslim brotherhood and Salafists

 

So, we have been in action for a long time, and stability for us is a much bigger concern than political freedom.

 

Keeping in mind all the above mentioned events and their impact on the Syrian economy... the regime has successfully:

• Reduced the illiteracy to 2.8%
• Maintained a very good GDP growth
• Reduced the public debt from 40.5% in 2007 to 24.3% in 2011
• Increased the GDP per capita to $3235

 

Your claims and accusations are baseless... 

My post in here was to show you the other side of the story... not to convince you with anything.

 

I thought bringing this up would wake you up... but evidently, it didn't.

 

I have done my part, it's all yours now to either think neutrally or to keep following media.

 

If I am to believe such baseless claims, I honestly would prefer believing my parents when they told me there is heaven and hell :)

 

 

Cheers,

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Permalink Reply by Sassan K. on October 21, 2011 at 5:05pm

I don't support the protests in Iran?? And I also question Hany's interests in the regime - family ties, business interests, etc. The Islamic Republic is the #1 state sponsor of terror in the world and consistently funnels money, arms, and terror through Syria and directly to Syria and Assad's thugs themselves.

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Permalink Reply by Hany on October 21, 2011 at 7:56pm

I respectfully disagree.

Syria is not an Islamic state, it's the total opposite... Syria is Secular... I didn't see a country in the region that I can speak out loud of atheism better than Syria.

 

Terrorism!!!! Please define terrorism... if defending your own country... or acquiring the latest technologies in weapons to not be enslaved for other nations and countries who already have much more advanced weapons... is called terrorism... then YES I AM A TERRORIST.

 

I believe Iranians should be proud of the fight their government is undergoing to be one of the most powerful countries in the world... Although I disagree with the Islamic state., but those are two separate axis.

 

And no, I do NOT have any kind of family ties or business with the Syrian government... I don't even have a person in my family who works for the government.

 

I am really surprised how an atheist, who is supposedly doesn't believe in god because he couldn't find an evidence of god's existence... believes in what the media says without seeing evidences!!

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Permalink Reply by Derek on October 22, 2011 at 4:32am

Hi Hany, just a few thoughts here...

1. Why is Assad barring most foreign media? What is there to hide?

2. Was it necessary to send tanks in to squash the mourners burying their dead?

3. Although you say Syria is secular, its constitution states that its president has to be Muslim. Given this, there is hardly going to be an outbreak of Atheism anytime soon.

 

Syria - Constitution

Article 3  [Islam]
(1) The religion of the President of the Republic has to be Islam.
(2) Islamic jurisprudence is a main source of legislation.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Hany on October 23, 2011 at 3:48am

Great research Derek :)

 

Syria actually is moving toward a full secular state... but facing a lot of obstacles caused by the religious extremists and supporters of the outlawed Mulsim Brotherhood.

 

When, I say secular, I mean that there is a religion freedom, and the decisions and actions of the government are not in anyway connected to a religion.

 

The current Syrian constitution was adopted in 1973 and only minor changes since then. We are eyeing a full constitution change in the coming 6-month, not sure if the change will include any change to article#3.

 

Regarding the 2nd part of Article#3, islam as the main source of legislation, also, this is a very old decree, which, I believe was justified at that time, as 94% of Syrians are Muslims (regardless of the fact that half of them don't practice Islam or don't take it seriously)

 

Quoting Stephen Prothero (CNN blog contributor and Author of "God is not One":

secularism typically means sweeping the public square clean of the detritus of religion. In Syria, it means something very different — giving a public platform to a variety of moderate religious and warding off religious "extremism" in the process.

Secularism has come under fire in Syria from many sides in recent years, but most notably from the outlawed Muslim Brotherhood. This decree is a shot back — a reassertion of Syria as a secular state.

 

However, there is a big and rapidly growing community that supports Secular Syria, I hope we get there soon.

 

 

Regarding the first 2 points:

1. Why is Assad barring most foreign media? What is there to hide?

I am not sure... but I believe (and does not necessarily agree with) that it's the way of confusing everyone... relying on "If you can't convince them, confuse them"

However, The Media was allowed a couple of month ago into Syria (all parts or Syria)... including BBC, CNN, Fox, Sky...etc

4-5 months ago, only pro-gov international media was allowed.. (Xianhua, Russia Today, AlManar, NBN...etc)

 

This again is a different topic, as it doesn't confirm or deny anything.

 

2. Was it necessary to send tanks in to squash the mourners burying their dead?

This is absolutely false, I have eye-witnessed how the army was dealing with the "Peaceful" protesters... I honestly was shocked... I didn't expect such respectful behavior from them. I am sure you will disagree with this... but I have seen it myself and with absolutely no doubt: NO PEACEFUL protester was killed or tortured...

To be very honest, I am sure some innocents were detained... not for more than 7 days (as per recent law, no one can be detained for interrogation for more than 7 days without an approval from the Attorney General himself) 

 

For example, Army and tanks were sent to Daraa because protesters destroyed state facilities and held guns against police and security forces.

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Permalink Reply by Kemal on October 26, 2011 at 6:17pm

And how can the Muslim Brotherhood cause obstacles in Syria when they haven't been in Syria for 30 years?  For people who don't know this: the penalty for beloning to the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria is DEATH and the Syrian regime takes this law seriously.

Syria was actually more secular before Hafez Al-Assad took power than it is today.  The Syrian regime is just like every other Arab regime: it has no ideology other than preserving it's own power. It uses sectarianism to divide and rule, and it switches between Islam and secularism depending on the expediencies of the time.  It doesn't care about secularism.  Again, I've done the research, and Syria actually was more secular in the pre-Assad era.  In fact, it was so secular that an Alawite junta could take power.

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