What a HUGE victory for reason and human rights. What a crushing defeat for those who enshrined their bigotry into an oppressive law, worked so hard to defend it, and said it was God will.

Let's face it. Isn't that what DOMA really was? A religious law? When organized groups or individuals who oppose marriage equality speak out, don't most of them cite supernatural backing for their positions? Whether it's the hardcore WBC Fred Phelps or the softcore 'hate the sin but not the sinner' Christian types, when groups and people like these sponsor legislation, support politicians, or vote, aren't they ultimately behind laws like DOMA? 

So a powerful super-majority group, while citing religion, passed a law that denied rights and benefits to a less powerful minority group. DOMA had little or no purpose other than that.

Didn't that make DOMA essentially a product of religion, akin to a religious law? Akin to doing the will of a God who exists only in their delusions? I think so.

DOMA was essentially a religious law, passed on a national scale, that forced a religious view on thousands of married couples who do not share that religious view. And now it's over.

I can't say it enough. I can't be any more glad about it.
Hatred, oppression, religion, and God: you lose.
Reason, freedom and equality: we win!

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Elvis is DEAD?????  When did this happen?

@ Reg the FronkeyFarmer
I don't care to bother with a site that is run by person who is afraid of the truth. If christians say we atheists are evil, baby-eating, Satan-worshipping, heathens and are going to hell, that's aok.

Let me point out the facts as he demonstrated in his own posts, I am the one who gets censored. Delete my account, you're a craven coward, too.

Insults do not make a man brave.

Calling a man stupid does nit make him smarter.

If you have facts relative to a topic, use them as leverage, not attacks on the other party.

If you delete your account because you can't take being called on the carpet for being insulting to another member, whether they deserved insulting or not, then, running is more cowardly than staying and fighting.

Fight the ideas, not the thinker.


Sure, its frustrating that the "other side" calls us baby eating monsters with no morals, yada yada yada...

..But is it OK for them to do that? Or, is it a sign that they have no real substance to their arguments?

Fighting fire with fire just makes a bigger fire typically....if they use fire, we use water.


I am not deleting because I was "called on the carpet" by a person that's terrified of the truth. I am leaving because I will continue to tell the truth. My signature line in my emails is, "If freedom means anything at all it is the liberty to tell another person what they do not want to hear."

Typically, they use a flame thrower, we use a water pistol. Too bad you do not have the courage to state obvious facts. KMA, cowards.

"If christians say we atheists are evil, baby-eating, Satan-worshipping, heathens and are going to hell, that's aok.

- you're mistaken, Christians are not allowed to say this kind of stuff on this site, just the same as nobody is allowed to insult another member.  It's the same rule for everyone.  If you think we're cowards:  well, you're the one running away. 

I am not running away, you stupid shit. If thinking that makes your feeble brain feel better, go ahead. I am finished here with all you silly-assed, cowardly morons.

Hey, we tried. 

All you have to do is say your piece without insulting anybody*, including our Christian guests. 

* anybody on this site.  Presumably it's OK to say that Salman Rushdie is a stupid annoying silly fuck.  If he was to join the site, I wouldn't be allowed to say that. 

Your derogatory and abusive language and name calling was censored. Your statements responding to Jeff were not. You know this. If you cannot tell the difference then you do not understand the nature of online debating.

Let me point out the facts as he demonstrated in his own posts.

Nobody here stopped you pointing out any “facts”. I certainly did not. If you want to throw a tantrum and rage quit that is a shame. I have or had no intention of deleting your account. I suppose you don’t think calling me a “craven coward” is ad hominem either. When I was the only person protesting outside the Saudi Embassy today to help Raif Badawi case I was not called that. My idea of what Freedom means is different to yours.

BTW Jeff did not call you anything remotely like what you are accusing him of.

I do my best not to cherry pick parts of the Bible like a lot of people do. Honestly, there are parts of the Bible that I wish weren't in it. But I do my best not to ignore those parts because I sincerely believe what the Bible says. Think about this. If there is any absolute truth out there, could we really expect to like it?

Thank you Jeff for doing so much to educate us regarding your God's Law. I have learned a great deal from you, and will I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws without seeming to cherry pick and how to best follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know Jeff you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help us.

Jesus said not to change the old laws one iota.

They therefore specifically still apply.

Your main concern now with compliance would be societal.

The laws of the land are not the laws of the bible.  The biblical laws, like Sharia Law, do not have authority in the USA for example.

If you feel that god's law is more important than state or federal laws, you would ignore the laws against stoning etc, and stone the involved parties, buy the slaves, and live the way Jesus wanted you to.

Slaves could be Canadians and Mexicans, as well as people not of your faith, as the hebrew nation was the context...and, Jesus wanted everyone to be a strictly Orthodox Jew.  So, if you follow Jesus, as he asked you to, you'd be Jewish.

So, all Christians, Muslims, etc, can be your slaves.  Mexican Jews for example might be verboten.

I hope that helps.


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