I recently confronted suicide not once, or twice... but three times. One of these is still occurring.
What I haven't explained in the article I published on suicide is how much I still blame religion. These are personal feelings, and don't belong in a public service piece; so I will go into that here:
When a person is religious, they create an acceptance of their lifespan never truly ending. A religious person finds this life to be utterly insignificant in the grand scheme of things, except perhaps providing the proper ID for the "real life", or afterlife as it is commonly referred to.
This notion of there being an immortal lifespan tends to break down the value of life and the finality of death. In the mind of the believer, it isn't a matter of not living that draws concern, but the matter of where you end up. Of course you won't stop existing! Are you mad? You have a soul, you fool!
In the minds of many, there is this idea that all it takes to get into heaven is for you to be sorry for being a filthy sinner and acknowledge the Lord God. Bam! Heaven time!
What value is living if you manage to truly believe paradise is just a snuff-film away? The reason you won't find these thoughts specifically in my article is because I am not a neurologist, psychologist, or any other -ologist of note in which I can legitimately make these claims in official print. I am, however, damn smart... smart enough to know how dumb I am... so these thoughts lay here appropriately marked as "opinion" and cast out for the open forum.
I'm wanting to generate dialogue on this, so I'll stop here and ask: what do you think?
Like and share the article on your various medias please.
I don't respond to comments on the article, so if you want to open a dialogue- speak here.
On what grounds is suicide not a good thing? I see it as a neutral thing, neither good nor bad, except if you leave a mess. When there's no more purpose to living or it's more pain than it's worth, isn't it time to check out? Why do we knee-jerk that suicide is a bad thing?
Laughs, I'm a strong proponent of freedom to commit suicide. I see how my post could have been read that way, though.
I think the definition of "right mind" is the one I was thinking of. There is an instinctive "will to survive" inherent in us, so if that is overcome, then the person may elect to die. The causes of that, would be down to the mindset of the person electing to die. If the catholic faith determines that there is a "right mind set" and a "wrong mind set". I wanted to see where that line is supposed to be drawn.
I can agree with this. A stiff chin despite my personal reluctance to submit inclines me to say "yes, there are conditions in which suicide is okay."
I appreciate that you have a dictation of "right mind" being that of sanity and not in an irrational mental perception of their turmoil.
If you ask me it's never OK, except perhaps if physical health and comfort has been terminally lost. Apart from that, there's always room for a second chance.
I'm prone to think NO suicidee is in their right mind.
I suppose this requires a definition of 'right mind'. I have, quite soberly, weighed the pros and cons of continued living at various points in my life. While the pros have always outweighed the cons, this exercise has led me to consider life circumstances where it is not the case. There are circumstances where perhaps suicide is more rational than self-preservation, provided you don't believe some d-bag in the sky is going to be a dick about it.
I see you say that Catholicism is forgiving of suicides if the suicidee is "not in their right mind". Could you perhaps give some examples of when you might feel a suicidee is in their right mind? Are there any methods the Catholic Church, in your view, takes to determine if in fact the suicidee was in the right state of mind or not for salvation?
Thanks in advance.
@ Strega - Ah yes Strega. The devil is in the details. I like your posts because you always want to get to the bottom of things where it really matters.
Heya! Welcome to TA!
Ah.. love the sinner, hate the sin.
I'm assuming that your gay friend is celibate, if he's taking communion and such. Or is that no longer an issue?
Divorce and remarriage isn't really an issue anymore, is it? I'm not really current on what's sin and what's personal business. Are people even still denied communion?
I do agree with the fact that bullies, hateful and ignorant people are to blame for suicide. Unfortunately, many of them use scripture to justify their actions. They use scripture, because THAT'S WHAT'S IN THE BIBLE.
Biblical morality is kind of um.... immoral, I do believe. Thank goodness most people have evolved past such woo. Why they still cling to a church without practicing the dogma and doctrines is beyond me. I guess it has something to do with self identification. The Catholics I know are born into Catholic families. They don't believe or practice 99% of the pish, but they self identify as Catholic, because that's all they've ever known. Why risk your sense of community when you can just smile, nod and do whatever the hell you want, anyway?
Cause Jesus knows your sneaky little secret, Misty? grin
but he's not telling is he Strega... hehehe
Yep I'm assuming so. And divorce and remarriage are still sinful. Sin is "missing the mark," not being who we were meant to be. Of course marriage is meant to be for life and only once, so that makes sense, right? As for denying communion, it happens pretty rarely, as far as I can tell.
I hear ya. But what you're referring to is fundamentalism. The Catholic Church is against it. Here's Pope Benedict last year: "Religious fundamentalism seeks to take power for political ends, at times using violence, over the individual conscience and over religion, all religious leaders in the Middle East [should] endeavor, by their example and their teaching, to do everything possible to uproot this threat, which indiscriminately and fatally affects believers."
I can't speak for Protestant Christians for this, but as Catholics we believe in Scripture and Tradition. Many of the old laws you can find in the old testament were disregarded after Jesus by Jesus Himself and the Apostles, the first bishops of the Church. The bishops have the authority from Jesus to interpret scripture so that radicals and fundamentalists don't misinterpret it. So the weird stuff in the bible isn't good enough to justify their actions, especially when it directly contradicts Jesus' message of love for all.
It's a pity that what you say is true about Catholics not actually practicing or believing. The faith isn't just something to be born into, it's something to be lived, to give us hope and encourage us to be the best human beings that we can be. I'd say to become Catholic because Jesus is as real today as He was 2000 years ago and we can live our best lives in relationship with Him. Doing "whatever the hell you want" doesn't always allow us to live as happy and loving lives as we should.
Many of the old laws you can find in the old testament were disregarded after Jesus by Jesus Himself
Did he now?
“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)
The bishops have the authority from Jesus to interpret scripture so that radicals and fundamentalists don't misinterpret it
Where is the contract that states that? Does that mean that hiding pedophiles is okay with Jesus?
So the weird stuff in the bible isn't good enough to justify their actions, especially when it directly contradicts Jesus' message of love for all.
Which message of love? This one?
“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.
Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NIV)