Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Bryan B on May 25, 2011 at 7:00am

Will these countries ever grow up? I also don't think it's any coincidence that the countries with huge political and social problem are theocracies or close to it.

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Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on May 25, 2011 at 7:08am

Ever hear of the C of E?  Why are there German catholics and French Catholics?  Spanish inquisition?  Name a country that didn't arise out of a theocratic system of government or with a church riding along to give the leaders authority.  Go back to the 100 years rule - how many of them have even had a century of stable government to shake religion off?  You don't send a five year old to college.

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Permalink Reply by Jaume on May 25, 2011 at 7:26am

Reminds me that there are still state churches in secular heavens like Denmark and Norway (and even Sweden until recently.) How ironic.

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Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on May 25, 2011 at 7:29am

That's very good evidence that religion can be dealt with diplomatically.  Do the current governments derive their authority from these state churches?

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Permalink Reply by Jaume on May 25, 2011 at 7:42am

Not to my knowledge. All I know is that in the case of Norway and Denmark, the ruling monarchs also rules over the Church, but their power over state affairs is constutionally limited - both as head of state and head of the Church.

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Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on May 25, 2011 at 7:44am

So democracy evolved out of theocratic authority?

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Permalink Reply by Jaume on May 25, 2011 at 7:55am

Technically, you might say that, but it never was anything like real theocracy. European monarchs who appointed themselves head of the church did so to control the clergy, not the other way around. If there was anything like persistent theocracy or theocratic authority in Europe, it was limited to the influence the Vatican had over Catholic countries.

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Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on May 25, 2011 at 8:07am

Yes, but in usurping the power of the church there was a power base to be usurped.  Try removing the Roman Catholic church from the history of Charlemagne and see what remains.

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Permalink Reply by Jaume on May 25, 2011 at 8:48am

If your point is that democracy in Northern Europe evolved out of theocratic papal power they usurped through their Lutheran churches - I'd say it looks like a bit of a stretch. There may be more than a single cause to a given effect. E.g., try removing the Enlightenment from the history of Scandinavia and see what remains :-)

Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on May 25, 2011 at 9:11am

Shall we remove it with bombs or lobotomies?

Permalink Reply by Jaume on May 25, 2011 at 9:54am

Might as well try to remove patriarchy as well - so I suggest emasculation.

Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on May 25, 2011 at 10:01am

We need to take genetic samples before emasculation though.  After that, perhaps we should only keep as many eunuchs as are necessary to harvest crops.

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