Skepchick's huge controversy over late night proposition.

In case you are not currently aware, Skepchick Rebecca Watson attended some conference recently and, when she finally went to bed after talking for hours, found herself in an elevator with a strange man who asked her if she would like to go to his room for coffee to talk some more. In her recent video she said "Guys: dont do this...".

 

The problem is she is not really clear what the problem is. Some people are saying all men are evil rapists. Some people are saying she is over reacting to what was an innocent proposition. Having read a few of other peoples comments I believe the main problem was that she was trapped in an enclosed space with a strange man who just propositioned her and she declined. So the proposition itself was not bad(personally I would consider it flattering), but the timing and location of the proposition put her in uncomfortable situation. I think if he had asked her the same question in a more open space, she would of felt more secure that her answer would be heeded. Like if he asked her the same question just as she got off the elevator rather than when they were alone in the elevator, it would of not been such a big deal because if she says no: the doors close and they both go on their merry way.

 

What do other people think? all men are evil-psycho-rapists? she over reacted? what this guy did is totally fine?

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I felt offended, then immediately concerned for this poor woman.

I usually try to speed up and go past so then she is the one following me...kinda sucks I even consider it.

 

Is it safe to say that there are probably a hundred times more male rapists than female rapists?

It's probably safe to say there are more but quantifying it is difficult because of under-reporting.

Ok, I'll jump in.  In her original video where she said, "Guys, don't do that," she gave more background.  She had been doing a lot of travelling, was out of country at a big conference, had just spent the evening with a number of people in the bar, and then decided she was off to her room.  The guy followed her from the bar, into the elevator, and then waited until it was moving to invite her to his room to 'talk more and have coffee'.

 

It's a creepoid thing for him to do because it makes him seem like a spineless little creep.  He had all evening to talk to her and there was plenty of coffee in the bar so it would seem he just didn't have the courage to approach her in the bar - spineless, but hey, nobody's perfect.  Following her to the elevator to get some 'alone time' for the proposition is creepy.  Under the circumstances, her being in an unfamiliar town far from family/friends, the situation is mildly unsettling.  And so, she offered some advice, "Guys, don't do that."

 

Now a real player might pick up on that and say, "Hmm, scoping some alone time in the elevatro ain't so cool, huh?  I'll adjust my game and make my propositions in more open spaces."  I'm assuming the real players did just that, but a lot of other men got all emo-hurt and objected to the advice, taking it as a personal attack.  What really blew the issue out of the water, though, was Dawkins letter.  If you haven't read it then go find it because without reading it you have no idea why the issue got so big so fast.

 

Dawkins was a dick about it, and Skepchick stood up for herself, which is apparently the 'big dumb bitch dyke' thing to do.  A couple men suggested she should be raped for being such a 'cunt' and the prevailing attitude was 'put up AND shut up'.  I, for one, am glad she did neither.

 

So if you don't want any comments on your game then stop playing.  If you want to play, then either continue to do so badly or take a tip once in a while and don't get all emo about it.  Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

You don't think the "game" analogy might be a bit wrong?

 

Now a real player might pick up on that

As opposed to us fake/un-real players who genuinely just want to meet new and interesting people? It's not a game, it's real life. There are no players, just genuine people and people faking it to get what they want. (hint: the fakers are what you call "players")

 

Dawkins was a dick about it

Yes, I don't know what possessed him to make such comments. Thoroughly uncalled for.

 

For the record, I take far more offence from the use of the game analogy than the fact Rebecca gave advice about talking to strange women in elevators.

"So now Rebecca's mild comment about men being "creepy" if they approach her in elevators at 4am is alright"

Did I ever say it wasn't alright?

 

"saying that SOME men might be players is completely offensive?"

I take offence from the game analogy - it implies women are a prize(something I both agree and disagree with on various levels) and turns socialising into something with winners and losers.

 

"It seems like you would take offense to just about anything that a woman might voice about a man."

I may take offence if I was the man she was talking about, however, I think you meant to say "men" instead of "a man"

 

EDIT: gah! the editor ate a whole bunch of stuff I wrote! attempt to recreate it below:

 

Wouldn't you take offence to a blanket statement about women? Hell, I would take offence of behalf of the women in my life.

 

I don't know if you intend to use the aggressive tone I read in your posts to me. I consider myself to be educated, literate, and articulate yet I seem to continually fail to convey my feelings to you. I am genuinely interested in equality and openness. There are no (intentional) hidden meanings behind my words. Maybe one day we will understand each other better.

 

Damn that editor, my original reply was so much better than this but I can't remember what I said exactly... I'm going to start copying my posts to notepad incase this happens again.

Some men are players , I am one of them.  I am not offended in the least.  I like the challenge , the pursuit , the end prize.  Emotions and relationships come second.  

 

But the word creepy has a negative connotation to it ... it usually is defined as "Anytime a guy makes a sexual advance towards a woman that she doesn't want."  

 

If she wants it , then it isn't 'creepy'.  

 

Let's remember here that 'playing the field' is not just a term used by men.  Women use it too.  

Well the guy WAS playing his own game.  If you sit in a bar for the evening only to follow some woman out, through the lobby, and onto the elevator to get a moment alone to ask her to your room then you are playing a game.  You may have sincerely caring intentions, but you've set about a plan to minimize your risk of public rejection - and that development and then implementation of a strategy is your 'game'.

 

I'm not talking about 'playing games' with people, as in using guise to mislead them for your own benefit.  I'm talking about the little games people play everyday.  Things like asking a coworker in the lunch room where they got that wonderful looking pizza rather than just saying, "Damn that pizza looks good, do you mind sharing a piece with me?"

 

Anyway, she was just offering a polite tip to other men who might be apt to go about the 'pick-up' process in the same way.  It isn't a good strategy, and it makes a guy seem creepy when he does that.  If you genuinely just want to meet new and interesting people, it might be a good idea to incorporate that tip into your strategy for doing so.

Well the guy WAS playing his own game.

I think we define a game differently... By your definition a game is anywhere a strategy is used? By that logic: the stock market is a game, global politics is a game, pretty much anything is a game.

 

I'm not talking about 'playing games' with people, as in using guise to mislead them for your own benefit.  I'm talking about the little games people play everyday.  Things like asking a coworker in the lunch room where they got that wonderful looking pizza rather than just saying, "Damn that pizza looks good, do you mind sharing a piece with me?"

Apparently I am still the nervous, socially inept young man I was in my youth. If someone asks me where I got my delicious pizza, I would respond by telling them where I got my pizza. If they ask for a slice, I will either give them a slice or tell them where they can get their very own pizza. Is there a name for my condition? failing to understand the subtext in other peoples words.

 

My point is, maybe this guy wasn't playing a game. Maybe he was trying for hours to work up the courage to go and talk to Rebecca and then panicked when she got up and went to bed. By your previous post you seem to think such a guy is a spineless creep.

Failing to understand the subtext in other people's words is a symptom of Asperger Syndrome.  If he was trying for hours to work up the courage to walk up to someone and say hello then he does, in fact, have a behavioral impairment.  It should not be difficult for an adult to approach another adult and start a conversation.

 

Even so, Skepchick did not berate him, either on the spot or in the video.  She pointed out the she did not appreciate being approached in such a manner, and in turn she had 'fans' tell her she deserved to be raped to death.  Furthermore, rather than receiving a little support from a conference colleague, that colleague belittled her situation and told her to 'stop whining'.

 

Now, if you are so incredibly sensitive to the words that others use, or ways that they phrase, behaviors that are characteristic of yourself then I would expect that you might have a lot more empathy for Skepchick here rather than trying to turn this into something about yourself.

she had 'fans' tell her she deserved to be raped to death.

To this day, I don't understand how they could possibly come to that conclusion.

 

I would expect that you might have a lot more empathy for Skepchick

I can empathize somewhat with both Skepchick and the guy involved, hence why I wanted to discuss the topic.

Yeah , and Dawkins has received numerous death threats.  He doesn't tell Christians or Muslims that they shouldn't speak to him in elevators.  

 

 

Good for him then.  What's your point?

That there is no reason anyone.  Anyone!  Should feel more empathy for a woman receiving rape threats (actually not even rape threats , messages that say she deserves to be raped to death ... just slightly different than saying 'i'm going to rape you to death' ..... than a man receiving death threats.  

 

Dawkins laughs it off.  He wouldn't be offended if a muslim approached him in an elevator.  He might be a bit nervous , but I'm sure his skin is thick enough for it.  

 

Apparently Rebeccas is not.  

 

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