In case you are not currently aware, Skepchick Rebecca Watson attended some conference recently and, when she finally went to bed after talking for hours, found herself in an elevator with a strange man who asked her if she would like to go to his room for coffee to talk some more. In her recent video she said "Guys: dont do this...".
The problem is she is not really clear what the problem is. Some people are saying all men are evil rapists. Some people are saying she is over reacting to what was an innocent proposition. Having read a few of other peoples comments I believe the main problem was that she was trapped in an enclosed space with a strange man who just propositioned her and she declined. So the proposition itself was not bad(personally I would consider it flattering), but the timing and location of the proposition put her in uncomfortable situation. I think if he had asked her the same question in a more open space, she would of felt more secure that her answer would be heeded. Like if he asked her the same question just as she got off the elevator rather than when they were alone in the elevator, it would of not been such a big deal because if she says no: the doors close and they both go on their merry way.
What do other people think? all men are evil-psycho-rapists? she over reacted? what this guy did is totally fine?
Post removed after gaining better insight to the OPs intentions ..
Stephen, if you would like to repost what you originally posted(I assume it was an actual response to my post rather than a personal attack) I would greatly appreciate it. UsuallyScarlett is, I believe, referring to my previous posts regarding abortion and unwanted children in which I and Dustin were arguing against what we perceive to be an inequality between the sexes.
I can assure you I am not interested in "male activist mental masterbation game of catch the feminazi.". I am just seeking a discussion and, in a far broader sense, equality of all people in the eyes of the law.
Admit that you're not looking for an "answer" to this discussion.
I was looking for a discussion actually... alot of people seemed to be commenting that the guy did nothing wrong...some people suggested that women should never be propositioned in such a way at all.
You've made your point abundantly clear in two different places on this site already.
Oh, and by continuing to talk about it, you're helping to perpetuate this "huge controversy".
True but at least I am not bothering anyone actually involved in the incident, merely using it as a starting point for a discussion around acceptable male behaviour.
Your point that she was "only overreacting".
Did I say that? no. I said OTHER PEOPLE have said that.
You even state that, though perhaps unconsciously, in your opening question:
"What do other people think? all men are evil-psycho-rapists? she over reacted? what this guy did is totally fine?"
1. All men are evil-psycho-rapists
2. She over reacted
3. What this guy did is totally fine
The main question is "What do other people think?" The other questions are examples of what I have read from other people... I quite explicitly state my opinion in the large paragraph of my post. Did you read it or have I failed to articulate myself?
You don't phrase this in a way that conducive to the other side of the discussion
Admittedly I could of phrased it better and in future I will to do that.
you didn't, presumably because you don't find these other viewpoints valid
All viewpoints are valid in my opinion. I didn't, because I didn't find these other viewpoints represented heavily in other people's comments which I have read. It is possible I missed them. It is possible they don't exist. It is possible I took a sample too small to be truly representative of the full spectrum of comments.
from reading some of your other posts in which you've already made your case for this subject that does come across.
This is the first time I have even thought about this subject(that is, late night propositions from strange men in an enclosed space in which the person being propositioned might feel uncomfortable) so I fail to see how I could of "made my case for this subject".
You seem to allude that I have made a point and/or a case in the past yet you have not answered my direct question regarding such a point. Isn't one of the rules of law that a person should be able to know what they are accused of? Please, in no uncertain terms, tell me what you are accusing me of? I suspect it is some kind of bigotry or sexism from our previous discussions regarding abortion. I can't remember who I was replying to at the time but I said something along the lines of "Please point out where I have been sexist or bigoted and I will explain myself". To my knowledge, no one has come forward to point out anything. In any case, that comment stands for any and all of my posts. If I am being bigoted or sexist, PLEASE call me out on it. I do not wish to be bigoted or sexist, nor do I believe that I am.
I just don't see why you're bringing this up again.
I don't see what "this" is.
And finally, do you have an opinion regarding my original post? What did this guy do that made Rebecca feel uncomfortable? What could he of done better/different? What would you do if you were Rebecca? What would you do if you were in a similar position to the guy?
Usually Scarlett thinks she has more weight in the discussion because she is a female , but she doesn't realize that just isn't true. Not all women agree with her and I've read comments from at least one female that agrees that Rebeccas reaction was absurd and men should be able to make polite requests however they wish.
Why are you talking about Usually Scarlett in the third person?
Anyway, the nice thing about being human is that we are all different. Women are not a monolith. Our opinions vary and there are bound to be some who think Rebecca overreacted and some who think her reaction was just fine.
I happen to be one of the women who thinks Rebecca's reaction was appropriate for her. And while it is true that men should have the right to make polite requests however they wish, they need to be prepared for the possibility that their "request" may be misinterpreted by the receiver of their request.
Communication is a two way street. The onus isn't ALL on the receiver to make sure they are interpreting the person's words correctly. If the asker doesn't want to be misinterpreted then it is also their responsibility to make sure the request is asked in such a way that misinterpretation is minimized.
Then Rebecca had no business saying 'Guys , don't do that' , if women are not a monolith. Some would get creeped out , some would be flattered but still decline the offer and some would strip their clothes off and jump into bed with the guy before he get's to the end of the offer.
So what should the guy do? Say 'Oh , and by coffee , I realllllyyyyy just means spontaneous sex'
That wouldn't go over too well either... lol
Then Rebecca had no business saying 'Guys , don't do that'
I don't agree. I think she does have the right to say that. It's her opinion. It's my opinion too. I don't think guys should be doing that kind of thing because it is creepy and makes assumptions about the woman that probably have no basis in fact. Will every guy take that opinion to heart? No. Men are not a monolith either and I guarantee that some guy is in an elevator propositioning some woman.
Making assumptions about the woman? Nahhh , guys just want sex. They don't make assumptions about women when they offer to hang out or to get coffee. We don't think 'oh damn that's a sleeze , she'll be quick and ready to jump into bed with me!'
We think 'hey that female is interesting and attractive and I wish to invite her over ... and hopefully get some'
Getting some is our issue , it has nothing to do with assuming anything about the woman.