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Permalink Reply by Dallas the Phallus on March 10, 2011 at 11:58am

I've not heard what King has said, but I can imagine what it is. I don't much care for hyperbole and fear-mongering, but on the other hand, I do believe that all theism is a threat to some degree. Theism not only encourages, but frequently demands, ingroup loyalty and outgroup persecution (indirect, direct, subtle, or overt) based on ideas and beliefs that have no basis in reality. So in that sense, theism is a threat to social harmony and progress.

 

I'm not one to encourage people to grab a pitchfork and torch and join an angry mob, but I am not really motivated to come to the aid of people who are extremely biased and prejudiced when they, in turn, are the recipients of other forms of bias and prejudice.

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Permalink Reply by Nelson on March 10, 2011 at 12:07pm

i agree. it's bigotry hiding behind a thin veneer of "national security". it's disgusting. and, what's more, it's going to cause the very thing it aims address.

they're specifically looking at radicalized muslim youth right? but in doing so, without apparent cause, they're going to signal to the muslim youth that they're being unfairly singled out which............wait for it............is far more likely, it seems, to radicalize them!

sigh.

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Permalink Reply by Dallas the Phallus on March 10, 2011 at 12:12pm

I agree Nelson. People generally do create the problem they are seeking to avoid. Kind of like being so nervous on a date out of fear of messing it up, that you DO end up messing it up. (Or so I've heard, hahah! )

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Permalink Reply by Hope on March 10, 2011 at 12:27pm

Very interesting post Robert!

I am amazed how gentle are you Jewish atheists!

Yeah Robert, most people whom are receiving haterd are muslims...It's not their fault for sure..

If I have to stand up for Muslims, I'll stand up for the peaceful ones whom are the majority btw.

and about those the muslim radicals I'll be against them for sure.

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Permalink Reply by Robert Karp on March 10, 2011 at 12:31pm

Don't get me wrong, I'm not making an excuse for the religion of Islam which is the most violent by far. My argument is for the rights of every American believer or not to be treated equally.  In a time of financial crisis, when programs like social security and medicaid and medicare are being thrown into the mix of possible cuts, how in the heck does a hearing like this serve any purpose both morally and financially. It is an attempt to get our focus away from the plundering of the middle class. I find it reprehensible.

 

ps - Jewish atheist? I renounced my jewdiasm years ago so I take offense to that remark ;-). How did you know I had it in my background?

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Permalink Reply by Dallas the Phallus on March 10, 2011 at 12:36pm

Robert, I hate to break the news to ya, but politics is nothing more than a smoke and mirrors. Misdirection is THE preferred method political action and discourse. I agree that it is reprehensible, but it's really nothing new. Alas!

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Permalink Reply by Robert Karp on March 10, 2011 at 12:41pm

Sigh. I know this but nevertheless it just saddens me where this country is and is heading. We knew when the repubs got the majority all hell (as fictional as it is) would break loose. 400 americans make more than 50 percent of the entire population and you're right, smoke and mirrors is their hope more people don't notice. Perhaps I am wrong to give the attention it doesn't deserve but it makes me so irate i couldn't help it.

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Permalink Reply by Hope on March 10, 2011 at 12:54pm

I got your idea Robert.

and about your background I knew it from your photo :)

Btw, I'm from the Middle East.. I know the Middle Eastren appearance.

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Permalink Reply by Kelin420 on March 11, 2011 at 3:46am

"Most violent" ? at this point in history?- let's not forget 300+ years of the Inquisition and 2000 years of violent christianity, and every other intolerant religious belief (which they have to be) that is why it's a religion. They have to be intolerant of other beliefs- how else can you be the one "true" religion- I'm right and you go to hell. That is the basis of every religion- to save you from that wrong belief or kill you because you deny their "true" belief.

I stand up for them to have that belief- but I deny, fight against your belief to make my belief or definate lack there of a crime as well- or to stop progress in science, medicine, understanding or the REAL world.

 

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Permalink Reply by Nelson on March 10, 2011 at 12:56pm

it's pretty silly to say that peaceful muslims are a majority according to any definition of "peaceful" that most people would accept. where are these peaceful muslims when a terrorist attack occurs, whether against the west or against their own people who, usually, are considered worthy of death over some difference of opinion on theological doctrine?

and what about the Pew Research's 2002 "what the world thinks in 2002" survey cited by Sam Harris in The End of Faith? 38,000 were surveyed. i'll let Harris tell you the results:

 

The survey included the following question, posed only to Muslims:

Some people think that suicide bombing and other forms of violence
against civilian targets are justified in order to defend Islam
from its enemies. Other people believe that, no matter what the
reason, this kind of violence is never justified. Do you personally
feel that this kind of violence is often justified to defend Islam,
sometimes justified, rarely justified, or never justified?

 

[...]

Here are some of the results of the Pew study (not all percentages sum to 100):

If you do not find these numbers sufficiently disturbing, consider that places like Saudia Arabia, Yemen, Egypt, Iran, Sudan, Iraq, and the Palestinian territories were not included in the survey. Had they been, it is safe to say, the Lebanese would have lost their place at the top of the list several times over. Suicide bombing also entails suicide, of course, which most Muslims believe is expressly forbidden by God. Consequently, had the question been "Is it ever justified to target civilians in defense of Islam," we could expect even greater Muslim support for terrorism.

But the Pew results are actually bleaker than the above table indicates. A closer look at the data reveals that the pollsters skewed their results by binning the responses "rarely justified" and "never justified" together, thus giving a false sense of Muslim pacifism. Take another look at the data from Jordan: 43 percent of Jordanians apparently favor terrorism, while 48 percent do not. The problem, however, is that 22 percent of Jordanians actually responded "rarely justified," and this accounts for nearly half of their "No" responses. "Rarely justified" still means that under certain circumstances, these respondents would sanction the indiscriminate murder of noncombatants (plus suicide), not as an accidental by-product of a military operation but as its intended outcome. A more accurate picture of Muslim tolerance for terrorism emerges when we focus on the percentage of respondents who could not find it in their hearts to say "never justified" (leaving aside the many people who still lurk in the shadows of "Don't Know/Refused"). If we divide the data in this way, the sun of modernity sets even further over the Muslim world:

Sam Harris The End of Faith pages 124-126

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so, yeah...

my stance against what King and Beck and others are doing is because even if the majority of muslims aren't peaceful it doesn't mean that all of them are terrorists and nor should we be acting in ways that will produce more radicalized young muslims instead of fewer.

 

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Permalink Reply by Robert Karp on March 10, 2011 at 1:01pm

Wow, really interesting and scary charts Nelson. Again I don't want the forum to be confused, I am a fervent anti-theist in every sense of the word.  But hate is hate whether it's from the Church of God or from Rep. Peter King, I guess i expect too much from our elected officials too much being basic sensibilities that is.

 

Hope as Garfield says "I resemble that remark"!

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Permalink Reply by Nelson on March 10, 2011 at 1:13pm

totally agree. i too am an anti-theist. but you're right, bigotry is bigotry no matter who it's against.

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